Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Mary_H]

I call shenanigans. You don't do it all the time when you go out the door. Nobody does. You're lying.

Footprints leading (only) away are indeed evidence that the person leaving the prints didn't lock the door. To claim they are not is to merely expose yourself to further ridicule.

This is not a question of whether an activity is possible; it's whether it's probable and whether it fits with the rest of the evidence. Clearly this particular activity does not, regardless of your efforts to establish lies as fact.

You are trying to make this into something it isn't. What I do with my door is not the same as what Rudy may have done with Meredith's door; that's why I had to test it. Have you tested it yet, by the way? If not, why not?

In court it could easily be argued that because an activity is possible it then rules out quite a number of other things, such as the claim that Rudy did not lock the door.

 

[Mary_H]

With a key, lock and door you are familiar with and without the stress and panic of just having murdered someone.

All the more reason for Rudy to be operating on autopilot as opposed to deliberately.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

You guys certainly use a lot of pejoratives to dress up your non-arguments.

Maybe he did it instinctively, without thinking. As a basketball player, he has been well trained in how to move around without moving his feet, a/k/a traveling.

Are you kidding me? You don't even realize just how ridiculous this sounds, do you?

Look, shifting your foot around is not traveling. Both foot have to leave the ground for traveling to be called (and, technically, you can even move one of your feet - it's both feet that have to move for it to be called traveling). So, this little "he was a basketball player, he was trained to move around with his feet planted" bit is, well, crap. He would have been trained in how to pivot on one foot...did the footprints outside Meredith's door show signs of pivoting? Or signs of one foot moving and the other staying in place?

At least learn a little bit about how traveling works if you're going to claim that's how Rudy locked the door...

 

[Mary_H]

Did Guede not have blood on his hands/fingers when he left the bedroom?

I thought the door knob to the bedroom was clean, no fingerprints and no blood?

Amanda and Raffaele's fingerprints were not on the doorknob either.

 

[Mary_H]

Wait...he didn't want her to die, so he locked the door and took her phones so she couldn't get help (and, ya know, not die)?

Srsly, Mary, the twists and twirls in your scenarios just crack me up

Let me put it this way -- he was assuming she was not dead.

 

[Fiona]

In court it could easily be argued that because an activity is possible it then rules out quite a number of other things, such as the claim that Rudy did not lock the door.

This is the fundamental problem with much of what you are doing MaryH. It has been pointed out time and time again what reasonable doubt means and how it works.

 

[Mary_H]

It's not just simply turning at the waist. You would, in fact, be shifting your body weight, and your feet would, therefore, slip/slide at least a little. And since there's no evidence that this happened...

I take it you haven't tried it, either.

It's much easier to conclude that Amanda closed the door, since, ya know, we have her bloody footprint facing the door - exactly as one would expect to find from someone who closed/locked the door. Go figure

Thank goodness most trials do not depend on what is easiest to conclude exclusively from the point of view of the prosecution.

 

[Fiona]

I suppose you think that if it is possible to have sex while standing up in a hammock that is what a lot of people do? Especially athletes?

 

[Mary_H]

Are you kidding me? You don't even realize just how ridiculous this sounds, do you?

Look, shifting your foot around is not traveling. Both foot have to leave the ground for traveling to be called (and, technically, you can even move one of your feet - it's both feet that have to move for it to be called traveling). So, this little "he was a basketball player, he was trained to move around with his feet planted" bit is, well, crap. He would have been trained in how to pivot on one foot...did the footprints outside Meredith's door show signs of pivoting? Or signs of one foot moving and the other staying in place?

At least learn a little bit about how traveling works if you're going to claim that's how Rudy locked the door...

You're probably right; I hardly ever watch basketball.

Regardless, if you try the maneuver, you will see it doesn't take a basketball player to do it.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I take it you haven't tried it, either.



Thank goodness most trials do not depend on what is easiest to conclude exclusively from the point of view of the prosecution.

I have, Mary. In fact, it's physically impossible to do what you're claiming to do without shifting your body weight...or leaving footprints right next to each other, as opposed to in a normal stride.

But, hey, this is the fantasy world where people don't stop mid-stride, turn at the waist, and lock their doors. This is the fantasy world where people lie to the Police to hide that they were having sex, even after they've been arrested for murder. This is the fantasy world where 30mins worth of interrogation is sufficient to implant false memories and coerce a "suspect" into naming someone else (who is subsequently released, despite the desire of the constabulary to cover their errors).

This is the fantasy world where DNA floats around and majically lands whereever it may, except for when it doesn't. This is the fantasy world where a burglar who is startled while on the can (or was he ransacking Filomena's room - oh, wait, he didn't get that far before he had to use the restroom ) will, rather than just leave, rape and murder the girl who startled him.

Quite the fantasy world you have going there, Mary.

 

[Fuji]

You guys certainly use a lot of pejoratives to dress up your non-arguments.

Maybe he did it instinctively, without thinking. As a basketball player, he has been well trained in how to move around without moving his feet, a/k/a traveling.

What's with the "you guys" crap? I've been silent for (literally) over 99% of this thread, so I don't know how you manage to lump me in with any group, other than the group of people who find this latest hypothetical scenario laughable. I will cop to membership in that group.

Yes, you are, in a very narrow sense, correct. Maybe he did. But it is far, far more likelier that he didn't. I'll stick with the odds, thanks.

 

[Mary_H]

I have, Mary. In fact, it's physically impossible to do what you're claiming to do without shifting your body weight...or leaving footprints right next to each other, as opposed to in a normal stride.

False, false, false. I can even do it at my front door, which is no doubt wider than Meredith's bedroom door.

Can somebody provide a picture of the footprints so I can see how far apart they were?

 

[stilicho]

As a basketball player, he has been well trained in how to move around without moving his feet, a/k/a traveling.

So this is why you blurted out "but he's a basketball player" a few posts back. The maneuver that basketball players perform to avoid traveling is a pivot and it does involve moving one foot.

And they don't perform that to lock their doors. They do it to avoid a foul in the game they're trained to play.

 

[Mary_H]

What's with the "you guys" crap? I've been silent for (literally) over 99% of this thread, so I don't know how you manage to lump me in with any group, other than the group of people who find this latest hypothetical scenario laughable. I will cop to membership in that group.

That's pretty much the group I was talking about.

Yes, you are, in a very narrow sense, correct. Maybe he did. But it is far, far more likelier that he didn't. I'll stick with the odds, thanks.

All I set out to do was show that the evidence does not prove Rudy did not lock Meredith's door. Fulcanelli can no longer make that claim.

 

[Fiona]

It proves it beyond a reasonable doubt MaryH

 

[stilicho]

False, false, false. I can even do it at my front door, which is no doubt wider than Meredith's bedroom door.

Now this I would believe. Very different than your claim that you "do it all the time". You lied before and now you are trying desperately to weasel out of it.

 

[Mary_H]

So this is why you blurted out "but he's a basketball player" a few posts back. The maneuver that basketball players perform to avoid traveling is a pivot and it does involve moving one foot.

And they don't perform that to lock their doors. They do it to avoid a foul in the game they're trained to play.

No, actually, the concept of traveling didn't even occur to me until I was on my walk. When I mentioned (not blurted) him being a basketball player, I was thinking more in terms of him being able to stretch (ref: Fulcanelli's "rubber arms"). As it turns out, not much stretching is required.

 

[Mary_H]

Now this I would believe. Very different than your claim that you "do it all the time". You lied before and now you are trying desperately to weasel out of it.

Did you read my last post about this? I said what I do at my front door is not the same as what Rudy did at Meredith's door. You are trying to twist this, change the subject and make it look like something it is not. Stay on task.

 

[Mary_H]

It proves it beyond a reasonable doubt MaryH

How so, Fiona?

 

[Fiona]

How so, Fiona?

From post #207

Again, anything can happen: and it is the defence's job to try to show that things helpful to their case did happen. As it is the prosecution's job to show that they did not. It is for the jury to decide on the basis of the evidence presented and their judgement of the credibility of the witnesses. That is how courts work. If the jury was to accept uncritically every possible explanation which tended to exonerate the defendant we would never get any convictions at all. The test is "beyond reasonable doubt": but that does not mean beyond any possible doubt and the jury is not expected to suspend their critical faculties. They are expected to use them.

That is why