Was Dick Oliver confused about what he heard on 9/11

Jammonius:
Quick question (and by that I mean you don't need to post anything other then material concerning my question), What do you think is the difference between the sound of an explosion as opposed to say, an plane hitting a building?

Also, if you don't mind, How do you suppose would be the best way for someone that's never heard a plane crash to describe said sound?

I hope you consider these questions (although I started with one and ended with two) as I don't think they fall into the "*gotcha*" category.

* something you should actually clearly define someday *
 
Last edited:
DGM said:
Jammonius:
Quick question (and by that I mean you don't need to post anything other then material concerning my question), What do you think is the difference between the sound of an explosion as opposed to say, an plane hitting a building?

Also, if you don't mind, How do you suppose would be the best way for someone that's never heard a plane crash to describe said sound?

I hope you consider these questions (although I started with one and ended with two) as I don't think they fall into the "*gotcha*" category.

* something you should actually clearly define someday *
Click to expand...
Based on his posts, a "gotcha" question is any question that can't be answered in a way that is convenient to Jamms fantasy. This is interchangable with his "20 questions" cop-out.
 
Well...since Jam is AFK...and I'm a little drunk..I'll try to sit proxy for him.

Beachnut:

Your radar data is irrelevant and does not forward this discussion and is a classic example of a gotcha question...basically because I haven't come up with anything to repute it.

DMG:

Explosions sound like explosions. If you review the 4 witnesses statements from the Oliver video..it is clear they only heard the sound of pyrotechnical devices going off...either that or the the sounds of subways..I haven't decided yet.

Lapman:

I refuse to engage in futher discussion with you because you obviously don't know the meaning of a "gotcha" question. These are questions that I have no answer for..and therefore will not answer...I also don't play "20 questions" which are like "gotcha" questions...except there are more of them...please try harder.
 
sheeplesnshills said:
Well nothing from him today yet.....maybe he has had an epiphany and finally see the world as all the rest of us do, or maybe he took our advice and went saw the Doc. We can only hope
[qimg]http://www.funmunch.com/comments/get_well_soon/get_well_soon_comment_graphic_10.gif[/qimg]
Click to expand...


Hey posters,

I'm on a weekend holiday, and will offer up replies to posts that have some semblance of merit on Tues.

All the best
 
DGM said:
Oh, I so hope you pick mine (#581).

I'm so nervous he won't deem my questions worthy. How will I sleep?

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm laying in a new supply of expired equines just in case he goes back to his usual practice of hand wave, lies and repetition. I wonder if he will even manage to answer my "how wide were the WTC towers and what is the wingspan of a 767 question. Its hard to conceive how they could be construed as gotchas but then I lack his dazzling insight into the subject:)
 
sheeplesnshills said:
I'm laying in a new supply of expired equines just in case he goes back to his usual practice of hand wave, lies and repetition. I wonder if he will even manage to answer my "how wide were the WTC towers and what is the wingspan of a 767 question. Its hard to conceive how they could be construed as gotchas but then I lack his dazzling insight into the subject:)
Click to expand...

I'll answer for him. The towers were 208' wide, and a 767-200 has a wingspan of 156'. We'll assume he's already aware of these facts, but suffers from severe perception problems. Maybe he's just dyslexic and has his figures the other way around. But as a no-planer, that's the least of his problems.
 
sheeplesnshills said:
Jammo, really simple questions.....how wide were the WTC towers and what is the wingspan of a 767.?
Lets see if you can manage even that simple research. Link to your sources please.
Click to expand...

Jammonius answering a simple question? The words pigs and fly come to mind.
 
apathoid said:
I'll answer for him. The towers were 208' wide, and a 767-200 has a wingspan of 156'. We'll assume he's already aware of these facts, but suffers from severe perception problems. Maybe he's just dyslexic and has his figures the other way around. But as a no-planer, that's the least of his problems.
Click to expand...

I assume nothing where Jammo is concerned..........assuming he comes back, Jammo, do you agree with these figures?
 
1010 WINS has the the 9/11 tapes of FDNY. Various fire companies reported seeing a plane into the world trade center.
 
firecoins said:
1010 WINS has the the 9/11 tapes of FDNY. Various fire companies reported seeing a plane into the world trade center.
Click to expand...

I've never thought about it, but it kind of makes sense. It was a nice day, and when the firefighters aren't out on calls, they might be outside, or in bays working on the equipment, so they would certainly be more likely to see the planes than people in their air-conditioned cube farms. Also, they would be more likely to respond to the sound of the plane going over, in the case of Flight 11, than random New Yorkers walking to work from the buses and subways.
 
AJM8125 said:
Yes let's forget Sgt DeVona giving an actual confirmation of aircraft into both buildings @0923, that's not important now is it.

Better still, let's glance over the fact that PO Lim reported smelling jet fuel on the 51st floor @0912.

I don't know about NYC, but here in SF we generally don't store jet fuel in our buildings. So unless the WTC wasn't also a jet fuel storage facility then something brought that fuel into the tower. I wonder what that could've been.

Care to field that one jammonius?
Click to expand...


I think I've probably answered this one already, but now that I've had a couple days of R&R, there's something else that needs to be reported to our posters and our lurkers about the above.

In a prior response, I don't think I called attention to the desperation that comes through in AJM's post.

Consider this part:

Better still, let's glance over the fact that PO Lim reported smelling jet fuel on the 51st floor @0912.
Click to expand...

Lurkers and Posters, alike, it is now very clear that the common storyline requiring you to accept the claim a Boeing 767 hit the North Tower at close to 500mph on 9/11 has been reduced to assertions of proof based on the weak, inconclusive and tentative claims that a few people smelled jet fuel. Almost no one reliably reported seeing it, even fewer reliably reported hearing it, so AJM has just moved on and found a few people who claimed to have smelled it.

While, posters and lurkers, isn't that a .... rhymes with "rich"?

That weak claim does not come anywhere near to the level of refuting all those eye and ear witnesses that have been confirmed to exist in the Dick Oliver videos and in the PAPD witness reports, not to mention in the 503 Task Force official witness statements, that confirm it was "jist an explosion" as Our David Stollick(sp) had said at 8:46 when it happened.

So, come to think of it, we need definitely to add Our David Stollick(sp) to our list of valid candidates for the title of FIRST NO PLANER, for, indeed, it was;

"...jist an explosion..."
 
Last edited:
AJM8125 said:
This is by far the most moronic thing I've heard from you to date. This man just witnessed an explosion (even by your standards), debris, fire and human beings begin raining down on him. OK, let's just put that aside for the moment and just answer this question: When the hell did this man have the time to TURN ON A GOD DAMNED TELEVISION SET! Did you even read his report? This is assuming he still had electrical power after the crash.
Click to expand...

Lurkers, it has been my assumption that most people have an average capacity for inductive and deductive reasoning and for drawing reasonable conclusions from information presented to them. In this instance, we are talking solely about two similar, but not identical, statements written down by one Sgt. DeVona, who witnessed the explosion at the North Tower from the vantage point of outside of WTC 5, that is to say, from right in front of the site of the explosion. He did not report seeing a widebody jetliner and he did not report hearing a widebody jetliner.

As such, he is entirely consistent with the point I have made that there is a clear and direct correlation between closeness to the actual site of the event and the report that what happened was "jist an explosion."

That is what almost all who were close say.

Now, back to the quoted part. It is very clear that Sgt. DeVona based his 11/21/01, witness report on logs from reports of telephone calls, dispatches, in-house fire station reports and radio transmissions, etc. There was no need for AJM to have missed that. It can only be assumed, therefore, that the apparent "denseness" demonstrated in the post is brought on by an emotional need to protect the ability to believe in the common storyline.

He didn't say his dog reacted to it, or even if his dog was present. He reported the smell of burning jet fuel.
Click to expand...

I have already addressed the desperation of seeking to support the common storyline after reliance upon eye witnesses and upon ear witnesses has failed and failed utterly, with witnesses relying on the sense of smell. In the above, I tried to help out a bit by at least giving AJM the benefit of K-9s that, after all, have a far, far superior sense of smell compared to humans, and AJM looked my gift horse in the mouth.

sheesh :D

The World Trade Center was heated by steam.

Triple failure for jammonius.
Click to expand...


AJM has a lot of nerve :p
 
In jammos world, things that some people don't hear (ETA: or maybe hear but don't explicitly mention) trump things that other people do hear, or smell, or see. A strange world indeed.


jammo, quick:
1. Is it true, that "Sean" and "Rosa" both told us who they were, where they were, that they had a clear view on WTC, and that they saw a plane hit it?
2. Do you think that they both must have known whether their statements are true or untrue?
3. Is it true that you, jammo, assume both their statemennts to be untrue, i.e. they did not, in fact, see a plane crash into WTC?
4. Does it follow from 1.-3. that you imply both of them lied?

A simple "yes to all" will suffice, no word salad ordered :)
 
Resume said:
I'm not sure one really enjoys a train wreck. It's more like being mesmerized.I simply refuse to believe a human being can be as thick as the Jam-man appears to be.
Click to expand...

Did you happen to see or hear anything on 9/11 from the vantage point of being in lower Manhattan that day, by chance?

I hope you are not basing all, or mostly all, of what you hold to be true about 9/11 upon what you saw on teevee, are you?
 
jammonius said:
Did you happen to see or hear anything on 9/11 from the vantage point of being in lower Manhattan that day, by chance?

I hope you are not basing all, or mostly all, of what you hold to be true about 9/11 upon what you saw on teevee, are you?
Click to expand...

Did you happen to see or hear anything on 9/11 from the vantage point of being in lower Manhattan that day, by chance?

I hope you are not basing all, or mostly all, of what you hold to be true about 9/11 upon what you did not see or hear or smell on teevee, or anywhere else, are you?
 
sheeplesnshills said:
Jammo, really simple questions.....how wide were the WTC towers and what is the wingspan of a 767.?
Lets see if you can manage even that simple research. Link to your sources please.
Click to expand...

Precisely, sheeplesnshills. Don't waste time asking simple questions and don't expect me to participate in your little 20 question drills.

If posting up building dimensions is important to a point you want to make, then come right out and scream it!
 
phunk said:
How big would you estimate that hole is?
Click to expand...

Cut the crap and post up a size claim if you think doing so will advance some point you, and you alone, might like to make. I characteristically, habitually, and consistently do not play in other posters' 20 questions drills as that drill is childish, stupid and unworthy of reasoned, mature discussion.

I will continue to search for the way to say the above until the simple-minded rhetoric ceases to be posted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom