icerat
Philosopher
It's more than "problems". It didn't work. Crystallized methane was causing it to become buoyant as well as clogging the riser.
The containment dome has been taken off the well.
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
How Can they Stop the Oil Spill?
- Thread starter Unabogie
- Start date
It's more than "problems". It didn't work. Crystallized methane was causing it to become buoyant as well as clogging the riser.
The containment dome has been taken off the well.
As far as I understand, the stack tested OK- immediately before the kick. Afterwards, we don't know what damage it had suffered. The annular preventer is designed to close around drillpipe- that's it's function. It should at least have slowed things enough to get mud back in the riser via the choke and kill lines.
Blind rams don't close with pipe inside. Shears should...but it's not something you can test till you really need it.
But we're speculating. We just don't know enough. I guess we have to wait and see.
AlBell
Philosopher
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2009
- Messages
- 6,360
That's my understanding too.
True, although as I understand it it should also completely seal if no pipe or other obstruction is present.
So it seems, although it sounds like they were pulling pipe and off-loading mud. I'm not sure how or if that changes what might happen.
My bad. I've been using blind ram as synonymous with shear ram. And 'how would one ever test' is the question.
Once they get it off that will be one interesting BOP stack to examine.
Again, thanks for your insights.
icerat
Philosopher
Here's some video of an ROV capping one of three reported leaks. Quite fascinating and I'd appreciate some commentary from the experts here!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/first-underwater-footage_b_567007.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/first-underwater-footage_b_567007.html
paiute
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2004
- Messages
- 1,394
So... in a properly regulated operational environment, how many catastrophic disasters such as the present one would be allowed per year?
One way to avoid catastrophic disasters is to over-regulate all exploration.
That may, or may not work, but will come at a price.
How much are you, personally , willing to pay for a gallon of gasoline , if you can be 100% certain it is produced at zero environmental cost to the Gulf?
What about if it's the Arabian Gulf?
Or do you maybe feel you already pay enough to keep the Arabian Gulf clean?
That may, or may not work, but will come at a price.
How much are you, personally , willing to pay for a gallon of gasoline , if you can be 100% certain it is produced at zero environmental cost to the Gulf?
What about if it's the Arabian Gulf?
Or do you maybe feel you already pay enough to keep the Arabian Gulf clean?
macdoc
Philosopher
A carbon tax the likes of Norway and Sweden's - $50 a barrel since 1991 - will pay for a lot of regulation
If the Saudi's want to piss in their own nest it's their problem. Better their clear pumped oil than the garbage from Alberta
and what's wrong with a very stiff insurance fund that soaks up say 10% of the net profits of the buggers.....
If the Saudi's want to piss in their own nest it's their problem. Better their clear pumped oil than the garbage from Alberta
and what's wrong with a very stiff insurance fund that soaks up say 10% of the net profits of the buggers.....
Nosi
Illuminator
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2009
- Messages
- 3,164
That will put healthy people on foot & on bike, and trains for long distance travel. But what about the disabled who can neither walk nor bike? Subsidize them?
AlBell
Philosopher
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2009
- Messages
- 6,360
barrymore
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2010
- Messages
- 267
Isn't *over-regulation*, by definition, bad? Why would we want to over-regulate? Aside from political grandstanding, that is...
A carbon tax the likes of Norway and Sweden's - $50 a barrel since 1991 - will pay for a lot of regulation
If the Saudi's want to piss in their own nest it's their problem. Better their clear pumped oil than the garbage from Alberta
and what's wrong with a very stiff insurance fund that soaks up say 10% of the net profits of the buggers.....
I am not convinced that more preventative regulations will work. Not only do these things not happen that often, but oil & gas extraction, refining, and distribution is so complex that I have a hard time believing that additional mass regulations will pass a cost/benefit analysis. There are always going to be accidents, no matter how many regs you slap on the books.
“What fates impose, that men must needs abide; It boots not to resist both wind and tide.” - Shakespeare
What we do need though is a mechanism to enforce the costs of the disaster once they do happen. Possibly something like Superfund, just better run.
What I have gotten out of this is that it is unclear what was done right before the explosion/spill and what should have been done immediately after the explosion/spill happened. There needs to be a more clearly defined action plan and chain of responsibility/command. It's one thing to have it happen, but its been exacerbated my mismanagement, again (or so it seems, from this vantage point).
Last edited:
Yes.
But there is a belief among legislators that you can make dangerous jobs safer by passing laws.
Up to a point, there's truth in this, but after a major event like this, historically there is legislative overshoot.
On your general point about mismanagement, bear in mind that eleven men died and more would have died had they stayed on the rig longer than they did. The priority was not stopping the spill, not saving a $360 million dollar rig, but saving lives. I find no fault with that.
From the minute that bubble hit surface it was already too late to save the rig. The BOP had probably been damaged anyway.
All they could save was the rest of the crew. Which they did.
Last edited:
That's very much in line with my post 99. I can't understand why they did this at that time- unless, ironically, someone had environmental concerns about a potential mud spill- but safety always comes first. There must always be at least two barriers.
ETA- I should add that the statements in AlBell's link appear to be from the same source I quoted earlier- so we should not see this as supporting evidence. We seem to have varied repetitions of one single account.
Last edited:
EHocking
Penultimate Amazing
I think at the very least the MMS and industry will need to revisit regulations regarding the type (not necessarily the frequency) of BOP tests as well as revisiting previous recommendation by the MMS on the need for two shear rams in the stack and more frequent function testing of same. I understand that the current regulation is that shear rams are only tested upon the start of the rig's contract with an operator (or perhaps, merely commissioning? (source)).
I'd expect also that there will be attempts to strengthen the MMS's ability to enforce their recommendations (such as the above) rather than allowing industry (headed by IADC) to push for self-regulation in some areas.
There will be a great deal of political grandstanding about regulations, I wonders how much of it will be useful to safety and how much it will be useful for reelection and popularity of an individual politician?
Aye- there's the rub.
We could do that, yes.
A lot of people would freeze next winter though.
Oil is where it is. We got most of the easily accessible stuff long since.
What's left is mostly in remote (from cities you ever heard of) places- which , by definition tend to be wilderness, albeit often desert,- or offshore in deep water. Antarctica. Places like that.
I notice a tendency among the people in the world who use more oil and gas than anyone else, to express a NIMBY attitude to actually looking for the stuff.
So we just keep drilling until there's not another affordable drop left, whatever the consequences?
What about our descendants?
What about our ecosystem?
Any particular people in mind? Nigerians?
Belz...
Fiend God
Funny thing happened while reading this thread. I jumped from this:
To this:
Which is kinda fitting. And funny.
To this:
Which is kinda fitting. And funny.
macdoc
Philosopher
Not like the industry was unaware.....
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18881-oil-industry-failed-to-heed-blowout-warnings.html
continues
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18881-oil-industry-failed-to-heed-blowout-warnings.html
AlBell
Philosopher
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2009
- Messages
- 6,360
The article doesn't mention another known problem; shear rams cannot cut and seal the double wall areas where pipe sections are screwed together even for lower tensile strength (older) drill pipe, and certainly not a section of the drill string that had drill collars too.
BenBurch
Gatekeeper of The Left
Sounds to me like this was not something that would happen to a normal well, but this one was sunk through layers of methane hydrate, and the casing cement was in direct contact with the methane. The heat from the cement (it gets very warm) may have caused a pressure spike larger than any of the systems there were designed for.