Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[christianahannah]

You need to go back and read Raffaele's statements again. Speculation is not lying. He came up with several different scenarios.

It is good to see that this thread now understands that Raffaele called the police before the postals arrived.

It is also good to see that all of the PMF wall walking and spiderman BS is starting to be exposed.

Bruce do you have the timeline of when the postals arrived, Raffaele's phone call to his sister, his phone call to the police, etc.?

 

[stilicho]

This person obviously thinks Knox is "guilty as hell", to quote him (hence the cute little nickname 'AK47') so I think it's quite revealing that even he has serious doubts about the knife evidence.

I've discussed that with Greggy too. His doubts are qualified by his own admission that he's stating this from an ocean away. Why do you suppose that his opinion hasn't transformed into outright advocacy in the same way Waterbury and Halkides have done?

Erm, is the difference that Waterbury has expertise relevant to the case, expertise most of us don't have, including Barbie? I have to admit that Waterbury's book is the one I'm looking forward to the most for exactly this reason.

This is akin to saying my scientific opinion is valid because I put on a lab coat and peered through a microscope a few times. I will let real scientists take on Waterbury about his allegations regarding the forensics but what evidence does he have that RG was a police informant? And what is the source of his other allegations?

 

[Alt+F4]

You need to go back and read Raffaele's statements again. Speculation is not lying. He came up with several different scenarios.

Bruce, your attempt to define all of Raffaele's lies snf attempted cover ups as "scenarios", "speculations" and/or "confusion" only exposes what to me seems obvious: the evidence against Raffaele is overwhelming.....Amanda maybe not so much.

You may one day have to make the painful realization that Raffaele and Rudy murdered Meredith and Amanda played a much smaller role. Personally I think she witnessed the murder, did nothing to prevent it or help Meredith but I don't think she physically participated. I also think hard drugs, not just weed played, a big part in what happened.

Perhaps those who believe Amanda is innocent should stop concluding that just because she might be innocent he is too. A good place to start would be to stop with this nonsense that Raffaele was Amanda's "boyfriend". They knew each other for eight days before the crime. She had NO idea what kind of person he was, to say she was his boyfriend is to imply trust and intimacy (and no, that's not the same thing as sex).

 

[quadraginta]

This point was heavily disputed. You are aware of that fact.

Now that it has been proven that Raffaele called the police before the postals arrived, the theory simply changes for you.

I must have missed that part. Perhaps you're thinking of some other message board.

Why don't you take us through it one more time, just to be sure we are all actually in concurrence, as you suggest.

 

[Alt+F4]

Erm, is the difference that Waterbury has expertise relevant to the case

Perhaps I missed it katy, but what expertise does Dr. Waterbury have in regard to how Perugian law enforcement recruits, uses and treats informants?

 

[Kestrel]

Of course he did. Exactly when seems to be a matter of some dispute.

Of course he wouldn't have wanted all of the work done to prepare things for the police to be wasted, but he may have preferred to have the scene set properly before they visited. Maybe if there had been a bit more time he would have thought to brush some glass off to the outside of the windowsill.

It's clear you still believe the PMF timeline.

The Postal Police claimed they arrived at 12:35. It would only take about 5 minutes for Amanda and Raffaele to show them the broken window, blood, dirty toilet and locked door. Filomena and her friends arrived right around 13:00. Can you explain what the Postal Police were doing for the 20 minutes between 12:40 and 13:00?

Does it really make sense that they would stand around for 20 minutes, let Amanda and Raffaele wander off and make phone calls out of earshot, and not check on when the Carabinieri were expected to arrive?

BTW - Look at page 14 of the Massei Report and you will see that court accepted that the Postal Police arrived at just before 13:00, not at 12:35.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Bruce do you have the timeline of when the postals arrived, Raffaele's phone call to his sister, his phone call to the police, etc.?

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/garage.html

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Bruce, your attempt to define all of Raffaele's lies snf attempted cover ups as "scenarios", "speculations" and/or "confusion" only exposes what to me seems obvious: the evidence against Raffaele is overwhelming.....Amanda maybe not so much.

You may one day have to make the painful realization that Raffaele and Rudy murdered Meredith and Amanda played a much smaller role. Personally I think she witnessed the murder, did nothing to prevent it or help Meredith but I don't think she physically participated. I also think hard drugs, not just weed played, a big part in what happened.

Perhaps those who believe Amanda is innocent should stop concluding that just because she might be innocent he is too. A good place to start would be to stop with this nonsense that Raffaele was Amanda's "boyfriend". They knew each other for eight days before the crime. She had NO idea what kind of person he was, to say she was his boyfriend is to imply trust and intimacy (and no, that's not the same thing as sex).

You have quite a different view. Do you believe that the large kitchen knife was the murder weapon?

 

[Alt+F4]

Do you believe that the large kitchen knife was the murder weapon?

No, I don't think that knife ever left Raffaele's apartment. Raffaele was probably so high when committing the murder he didn't remember what knife he used. He did know he stabbed Meredith though, thus the reason for making up the lie about the dinner party.

Amanda's early statement that she didn't know exactly what happened but she knew she didn't murder Meredith rings much more true that Raffaele's attempt to over explain everything.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

No, I don't think that knife ever left Raffaele's apartment. Raffaele was probably so high when committing the murder he didn't remember what knife he used. He did know he stabbed Meredith though, thus the reason for making up the lie about the dinner party.

Amanda's early statement that she didn't know exactly what happened but she knew she didn't murder Meredith rings much more true that Raffaele's attempt to over explain everything.

With your theory, why would Amanda cover for Raffaele? They only knew each other for a short time.

The kitchen knife had nothing to do with the murder. It is really getting hard for even the die hard guilters to argue that the knife was involved.

 

[Alt+F4]

With your theory, why would Amanda cover for Raffaele? They only knew each other for a short time.

He could have convinced her that she was just as guilty as if had actually done the stabbing. Why wouldn't she believe that? He was Italian and it would be reasonable for her to think he would be familiar with the Italian legal system vs. her, who had been in Italy for less than two months.

I could also imagine fear as a motivator not to talk. If she watched Rudy and Raffaele murder Meredith what did she think might happen to her if she told what she knew.

The kitchen knife had nothing to do with the murder. It is really getting hard for even the die hard guilters to argue that the knife was involved.

While the knife itself may have had nothing to do with the murder, it's Raffaele's lie about the knife that's incriminating.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Erm, is the difference that Waterbury has expertise relevant to the case, expertise most of us don't have, including Barbie? I have to admit that Waterbury's book is the one I'm looking forward to the most for exactly this reason.

All the tabloid journalists are 'professionals', but I'm not sure I'd rush out to buy a book written by one, much less unquestioningly accept its accuracy...

No, the difference is getting paid his price for supporting the FOA and family. What expertise? Is he a policeman? A geneticist? A forensic scientist? Criminal profiler? Has he attended a single hearing? Does he even speak Italian? No. So, perhaps you can run what that 'expertise' Waterbury has that he's been applying from his Armchair from 4,000 miles across the Atlantic. I'm not sure how verticle gardening will shed light on a murder case...unless Meredith was murdered with a pot plant or a shrubbery of course...

As for Barbie, she's earned her trust. Perhaps not from you, simply because you don't like what she has to say. Tough.

 

[Fulcanelli]

So the entire argument with the window comes down to a little bit of glass that may or may not have been on the ground. We are past the spiderman talk and the wall walker talk. Now it simply comes down to some glass on the ground.

No it doesn't and I'm glad you asked...it comes done to all of this: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5834900&postcount=7036

But no surprise to see you employing the old tactic of sophistry by trying to isolate a single element and claim it to be the whole argument...when in fact the the 'whole' evidence comprises of multiple elements which forms its strength (Of which the glass neatly lined up on the sill with none of the ground below while compelling, is only one part of the greater picture).

 

[Fulcanelli]

This point was heavily disputed. You are aware of that fact.

Now that it has been proven that Raffaele called the police before the postals arrived, the theory simply changes for you.

All evidence in a murder case where the suspects are pleading guilty is 'heavily disputed'...what's new? The fact that it's 'disputed' doesn't by definition mean the evidence is weak. You people use the term 'disputed' as a weapon, like somehow that 'proves' something. It doesn't. All it does is say the defence are denying it. It's amazing the amount of people you will find in the world of crime who say 'I didn't do it'.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You need to go back and read Raffaele's statements again. Speculation is not lying. He came up with several different scenarios.

He didn't 'speculate', he flat out lied. He claimed to have pricked Meredith with that knife while cooking with her in his apartment. It had never happened. She had never stepped foot in his apartment in her life. That's a lie!

 

[Fulcanelli]

BTW - Look at page 14 of the Massei Report and you will see that court accepted that the Postal Police arrived at just before 13:00, not at 12:35.

What, Massei's judgement is suddenly sound when he says something you happen to like? And actually, he doesn't commit on that, he leaves it open.

 

[tsig]

Fiona wrote: "I have long taken the view that if the dna evidence did not exist these people would still have been convicted and so this is not a particularly important issue for me: I doubt the decison rested on that evidence, primarily. I can see why the defence wish to make it central, but it is not central for me and I do not think it is central for the court. I may be wrong
As others have said, RS's explanation for why it was there is far more telling than whether it is accepted to be there or not. I realize others see that differently."

You have a unique view of this case. You are entitled to it of course but the prosecution would disagree with you. If it wasn't for the DNA evidence, Amanda and Raffaele would have never gone to trial for murder.

You put a lot of weight on Raffaele's speculation. He speculation several things. We have talked about this before. Raffaele's speculation would not have been sufficient evidence to convict.

I put a lot of weight on Amanda's lie that Patrick did it. So far the only explanation has been that the cops browbeat her to give his name then suddenly changed their minds and decided to charge her.

 

[tsig]

You need to go back and read Raffaele's statements again. Speculation is not lying. He came up with several different scenarios.

It is good to see that this thread now understands that Raffaele called the police before the postals arrived.

It is also good to see that all of the PMF wall walking and spiderman BS is starting to be exposed.

You must not be reading the same thread I am.

 

[stilicho]

[The] court accepted that the Postal Police arrived at just before 13:00, not at 12:35.

Cite?

I see Fulcanelli already called you on this, too. Are you cherry-picking your facts again?

 

[stilicho]

It is really getting hard for even the die hard guilters to argue that the knife was involved.

Why don't you believe Raffaele when he clearly states that he expected Meredith's DNA to be on the knife in his kitchen drawer?