Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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I really like the possible third option "Amanda was telling the police ******** on her own volition because getting interrogated isn't fun but she may still not have had anything to do with the murder". I don't think it's likely, but it helps noticing that there is in fact a false dichotomy at work here. Either "she indicated Mr. Lumumba to cover her behind" or "the police made her say what they wanted her to say!" are pretty black and white.
 
What exactly did "THEY WANT TO HEAR?" Yes, the name of the person she had texted. She told them the name, which is what they wanted. So far, so good. But then, came the " It was him, He did, He's bad." There was no way, imo, before that statement, that the police could have had any idea that Patrick was involved. Indeed, they had not even brought him in for questioning. Even though they knew he knew Meredith. It was Amanda's statement, and Amanda's statement alone, that got him arrested. Hence, Amanda's written confession to Madison. "I ****** up so bad. Nuff said.
 
capealadin said:
What exactly did "THEY WANT TO HEAR?" Yes, the name of the person she had texted. She told them the name, which is what they wanted. So far, so good. But then, came the " It was him, He did, He's bad." There was no way, imo, before that statement, that the police could have had any idea that Patrick was involved. Indeed, they had not even brought him in for questioning. Even though they knew he knew Meredith. It was Amanda's statement, and Amanda's statement alone, that got him arrested. Hence, Amanda's written confession to Madison. "I ****** up so bad. Nuff said.
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The police told her that she knew what name they wanted to hear.

If Amanda was guilty and wanted to place the blame on another person, why would she ever admit to being in the cottage?
 
And Bruce, re one of your previous posts. " She broke down, she gave them the name they wanted". What was the big deal? Why break down??? To give a NAME as to a text that said" See you later, have a good evening??" You,d think she was on the rack, being pulled apart, (and even then, some people didn<t confess.)
 
Bruce, For what reason wouldn,t they want the name? How could they know what was coming next? I think Amanda just wanted out of there, pronto, so she could ask Raffaele why he had thrown her under the bus. Presumably, she thought they would let her go, while they checked out her accusation. Time to straighten Raff out, omo
 
We are left with many questions in regard to the interrogation. Many of these questions will never be answered. I am well aware of the fact that the interrogation looks bad for Amanda. In fact, if Amanda had a attorney we would not be here discussing this right now. Rudy Guede would be serving a life sentence for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Justice would have been served.

Amanda was very naive to go to the police station day after day to try and help them. The tactics of the police provided incorrect information. This is often what comes out of aggressive interrogations.

The evidence of this case shows that one man attacked and murdered Meredith Kercher.
 
capealadin, have you got the exact words that Amanda said in the interrogation? What's your source?
 
As to why would Amanda admit to being in the cottage? My quess is to verify that she knew Patrick was the murderer. She heard it, ergo, it was true. Many people think that if they didn,t do the actual deed, they are not quilty. I imagine, rather than being confused, she was panic stricken that Raffaele had destroyed her alibi. In that situation, she was really REALLY scared. She didn,t lie about THAT.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
If she had an attorney, the interrogation would have never happened.
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I find this an interesting hypothetical.

I would venture all would agree that if she had an attorney, the accusation against Patrick would not have happened and also her gift statement would not exist.

The initial forensic evidence from the murder room would come back pointing to Rudy and not A & R. So would Raff's apartment have been searched and would we have the double DNA knife? The bra clasp did not enter the picture until much later and potentially viewed differently. Rudy would have been arrested with his silly story and that would have been it.

Thoughts?
 
I said, Dan O, I THINK, and IMO. My train of thought is no different to yours. I,m going with what I think is logical, as to what we do know, (via written statements, evidence in court).
 
Bruce Fisher said:
We are left with many questions in regard to the interrogation. Many of these questions will never be answered. I am well aware of the fact that the interrogation looks bad for Amanda. In fact, if Amanda had a attorney we would not be here discussing this right now. Rudy Guede would be serving a life sentence for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Justice would have been served.
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Perhaps. It might depend on whether in this scenario they tested the bra clasp. They might not have done, but if they did..... Also there are the problems with the phone calls not matching the testimony which they would have discovered. You might very well be right though.
 
Bruce, with all due respect, the police tactics provided lies. Amanda should have insisted on an attorney. But at that time, had she done so, I imagine she would have immediately become a suspect, and then had no opportunity to get togther with Raff, and straighten out their alibis.
 
Well, Juror, if one goes with the hypothetical, If they only charged Rudi with the crime, he probably would have incriminated Raff and Amanda, (which he HAS subsequently done). Evidence would in the meantime have been collected.
 
Juror said:
The initial forensic evidence from the murder room would come back pointing to Rudy and not A & R. So would Raff's apartment have been searched and would we have the double DNA knife? The bra clasp did not enter the picture until much later and potentially viewed differently. Rudy would have been arrested with his silly story and that would have been it.

Thoughts?
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There are at least two scenarios to consider. One where Amanda and Raffaele and Rudy were all involved, and one where it was only Rudy. In the scenario where they are all involved one has to consider the possibility that, as the only one of the three held by the police, Rudy might have named them sooner.... in which case you are back down the road of alibi's not quite working and phone records not fitting peoples stories.
 
capealadin said:
Bruce, with all due respect, the police tactics provided lies. Amanda should have insisted on an attorney. But at that time, had she done so, I imagine she would have immediately become a suspect, and then had no opportunity to get togther with Raff, and straighten out their alibis.
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I hadn't thought of this. It's a nice idea. If she was thinking clearly enough to consider this under pressure, then I'm impressed.
 
shuttlt said:
There are at least two scenarios to consider. One where Amanda and Raffaele and Rudy were all involved, and one where it was only Rudy. In the scenario where they are all involved one has to consider the possibility that, as the only one of the three held by the police, Rudy might have named them sooner.... in which case you are back down the road of alibi's not quite working and phone records not fitting peoples stories.
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That is true regarding the scenario with all three involved. Thanks and thanks to Cape too for pointing that out.
 
capealadin said:
Bruce, with all due respect, the police tactics provided lies. Amanda should have insisted on an attorney. But at that time, had she done so, I imagine she would have immediately become a suspect, and then had no opportunity to get togther with Raff, and straighten out their alibis.
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In Italy do many witnesses acquire an attorney while being questioned by the police? And by witnesses, I mean those who are not suspects but are one of many being questioned by police. If a witness can have an attorney present while being questioned does that automatically make them a suspect? Also, did any of the others who were questioned by the police (Meredith's flatmates, etc.) have attorneys present while being questioned?

I find it not unreasonable that the police were suspicious of Amanda (or even Raffaele) before the November 5 questioning. I think everyone would be suspect until alibis are confirmed, questioning conducted and someone caught.

I don't understand what Amanda saw to gain by naming Patrick as Meredith's murderer if she felt that Raffaele had thrown her under the bus in regards to her alibi. If Raffaele was no longer backing her version of where she was that night why would he go along with her confession of Patrick being the murderer?

Has Raffaele made any statements concerning Amanda naming Patrick and do we know anything of what he said during the November 5 questioning by police?
 
Juror said:
I find this an interesting hypothetical.

I would venture all would agree that if she had an attorney, the accusation against Patrick would not have happened and also her gift statement would not exist.

The initial forensic evidence from the murder room would come back pointing to Rudy and not A & R. So would Raff's apartment have been searched and would we have the double DNA knife? The bra clasp did not enter the picture until much later and potentially viewed differently. Rudy would have been arrested with his silly story and that would have been it.

Thoughts?
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Faked break-in. Multiple attackers. Body rearranged.

Even if the evidence isn't conclusive at the onset that those things occurred, no good investigator is going to rest comfortably until the issues are resolved. I think it's been pretty well established that they believed there were very real possibilities that all three had. From the beginning.

The first thing a staged break-in is going to make an investigator think of is that someone was trying to lead suspicion to a stranger crime, meaning that whoever was responsible for the staging wasn't a stranger. They have good reason to think that. Most murders aren't committed by strangers. Quite the opposite. The odds improve in direct proportion to the closeness of the relationship, and staged break-ins are usually an attempt to deflect interest from closer relationships.

The possibility of multiple attackers is going to keep them digging until either it can be eliminated or confirmed. Much of the police work immediately after the crime was discovered was geared exactly towards that goal.

The possibility that the body was rearranged hours after the crime goes right back to the other two issues, and reinforces their importance.

These would have been areas of intense speculation and study even if Knox and Sollecito had managed to not get caught in repeated lies and inconsistencies.
 
Shuttit: Once Amanda found out about Raff's throwing her under the bus, I imagine that was the focus of her attention. That was the crux of the matter. They must have thought they,d done a bang up cleaning job. The Alibi was of paramount importance. Rudi had to be protected. If Amanda was innocent, Rudi might have been a good lead. After all, he paled in comparison as to what was known of Patrick.
 
Capealadin, why did rudy have to be protected? Amanda had already pointed out his bathroom leavings. And she had already given him as a visitor to the house though I'm not sure if she gave his name.
 
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