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Missing our Troofs

Derek Johnson said:
This happens much?
Click to expand...

What's your point?

But yes. I have observed it on many a jenga-tower, card-house, or whaddayacall that game on fairs where you throw balls at tin pyramids...

You are arguing from incredulity, aren't you?
 
Fonebone said:
...NO The exact source of the intense heat needed to create those pools of molten steel found
under the rubble piles of the three destroyed WTC skyscrapers has yet to be determined.
--Only the absurd theory that concludes that the short lived fires from aviation kerosene caused the concrete reinforced steel cores to melt to a degree that caused a global symmetrical infrastructure to fail has been completely eliminated...
Click to expand...

Wow - five strawmen in one sentence - is that a Stundie????

1. No one claims that the fires in the trash heap were short-lived (we are talking about molten anything in the trash-heap, aren't we?). In fact, they burnt for weeks and months.
2. No one claims that the significant fires were fed by aviation kerosene alone. Buildings manage to burn to the ground entirely without fuel sometimes. Ya know, paper, plastics, wood...
3. No one claims there was any concrete reinforced steel core. It was purely steel-frame construction
4. No one claims that any melt caused structural failure. I have not even seen any truther spelling out this strawman in ages.
5. No one claims the failure was symmetrical.
 
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Missing our troofs

Just a note, Home, I mean Alga, I mean Profanz will be off suspension tomorrow, More "there was never any debunking, ever, ever, ever" denial and hand waving coming your way soon.
 
A W Smith said:
Just a note, Home, I mean Alga, I mean Profanz will be off suspension tomorrow, More "there was never any debunking, ever, ever, ever" denial and hand waving coming your way soon.
Click to expand...

Wow. You really did miss me didn't you? Knew the exact day I would be back and everything. Obsessed? Anyway you need to stop with the sock puppet accusations though. Someone might report you.
 
Step up to the plate A.W.

BigAl said:
There are no first-hand eyewitness reports of molten steel on the pile at WTC. All the reports are second-hand.

There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, we can dismiss the second-hand stories as hyperbole.
Click to expand...

Fonebone said:
These firemen are giving direct eyewitness testimony that contradicts your statements BigAl.
Are you questioning the eyewitnesses' sanity, veracity or integrity BigAl ?





Satellite thermal infrared images disproves that statement as does the GZ
LIDAR infrared images.



NO The exact source of the intense heat needed to create those pools of molten steel found
under the rubble piles of the three destroyed WTC skyscrapers has yet to be determined.
--Only the absurd theory that concludes that the short lived fires from aviation kerosene caused the
concrete reinforced steel cores to melt to a degree that caused a global symmetrical infrastructure
to fail has been completely eliminated.




EXACTLY what John Gross of the NIST does eh ?
Deny the molten pools of steel slag
were even present DESPITE all of the contrary evidence eh BigAl .
Click to expand...


A W Smith said:
Just a note, Home, I mean Alga, I mean Profanz will be off suspension tomorrow, More "there was never any debunking, ever, ever, ever" denial and hand waving coming your way soon.
Click to expand...

Fonebone < Maybe an example of some class A debunking would assist the aforementioned
miscreants recognize authentic debunking when they see it with their own eyes.

OK A.W. Step up to the plate --
BigAl post 122 followed by Fonebone post 133

Point out the debunking of these rescue/firefighter testimonies concerning
molten iron in the basements with lucid descriptions like " flowing lava "
and resembling " a foundry "'.
Then A.W.
Point out the debunking of Fonebone's counterstatement to BigAl referencing the USGS
report that chronicles the LIDAR and AVIRIS thermal scans of
HOT SPOTS in the basements evidence.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-...ermal.r09.html


This is very important A.W. -
Fonebone has been nominated for a
"stundie"---

P.S. I used to own a timeshare in one of the nicest resorts in central new jersey

Every absurdity has a champion to defend it,
for error is ever talkative . __Goldsmith
 
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Every absurdity has a fonebone to defend it,

Fonebone said:
Fonebone < Maybe an example of some class A debunking would assist the aforementioned
miscreants recognize authentic debunking when they see it with their own eyes.

OK A.W. Step up to the plate --
BigAl post 122 followed by Fonebone post 133

Point out the debunking of these rescue/firefighter testimonies concerning
molten iron in the basements with lucid descriptions like " flowing lava "
and resembling " a foundry "'.
Then A.W.
Point out the debunking of Fonebone's counterstatement to BigAl referencing the USGS
report that chronicles the LIDAR and AVIRIS thermal scans of
HOT SPOTS in the basements evidence.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-...ermal.r09.html


This is very important A.W. -
Fonebone has been nominated for a
"stundie"---

P.S. I used to own a timeshare in one of the nicest resorts in central new jersey

Every absurdity has a champion to defend it,
for error is ever talkative . __Goldsmith
Click to expand...
Are firemen metallurgists? I didnt happen to see the sample the fireman collected and tested sitting on the table in your video there. Was he hiding it behind him on the firehouse grill in the background? , Did you see it fonebone? And the fused "meteorite"? With paper in it? Are you done with your appeal to false authority now?

Lets have a test. Shall we fonebone?

Oystein said:
Ok. I make YOU an eyewitness to hot-glowing things.

Exhibit #1:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/293967938_fefbfba958.jpg?v=0
What is it?

Exhibit #2:
http://www.ekoref.com/images/pro_20.jpg
What is it?

Exhibit #3:
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/78...40715C8DD1FCBF9CBF80B9CB893ECE30A760B0D811297
What is it?

Exhibit #4:
http://www.jameslockman.com/jamesblog/down_the_hole.jpg
What is it?

Exhibt #5:
http://gallery.usgs.gov/images/05_26_2009/nr2Tlx8KKf_05_26_2009/medium/Drip2.JPG
What is it?

Exhibit #6:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/368337809_e92e87064f.jpg?v=0
What is it?

Exhibit #7:
http://www.exametal.com/images/P1120315.jpg
What is it?
Click to expand...

Well? What is it ?
 
Fonebone said:
Satellite thermal infrared images disproves that statement as does the GZ
LIDAR infrared images.
Click to expand...
They have infrared images that can detect steel ? really? Cite please.
NO The exact source of the intense heat needed to create those pools of molten steel found
under the rubble piles of the three destroyed WTC skyscrapers has yet to be determined.
Click to expand...
Affirm the consequent much?
--Only the absurd theory that concludes that the short lived fires from aviation kerosene caused the
concrete reinforced steel cores to melt to a degree that caused a global symmetrical infrastructure
to fail has been completely eliminated.
Click to expand...
"concrete reinforced steel cores???" Really? Better hit the book's fonebone
EXACTLY what John Gross of the NIST does eh ?
Deny the molten pools of steel slag
were even present DESPITE all of the contrary evidence eh BigAl .
Click to expand...
You have the samples of these formerly molten pools of steel? Present them. Its been almost NINE YEARS.
 
Fonebone said:
These firemen are giving direct eyewitness testimony that contradicts your statements BigAl.
Are you questioning the eyewitnesses' sanity, veracity or integrity BigAl ?





Satellite thermal infrared images disproves that statement as does the GZ
LIDAR infrared images.



NO The exact source of the intense heat needed to create those pools of molten steel found
under the rubble piles of the three destroyed WTC skyscrapers has yet to be determined.
--Only the absurd theory that concludes that the short lived fires from aviation kerosene caused the
concrete reinforced steel cores to melt to a degree that caused a global symmetrical infrastructure
to fail has been completely eliminated.




EXACTLY what John Gross of the NIST does eh ?
Deny the molten pools of steel slag
were even present DESPITE all of the contrary evidence eh BigAl .
Click to expand...

There is no eyewitness to molten steel in that video. Nobody says "I saw" or anything like it.
If you think I'm wrong, give us a minute and second mark and I'll explain why you are wrong.

Nothing in that video demonstrates temps hot enough to melt steel. Bent steel isn't molten steel. Melted boots isn't molten steel. If you think I'm wrong, give us a minute and second mark and I'll explain why you are wrong.

"Slag" can be anything in a trash fire. There is nothing shown in that video that demonstrates slag from molten steel. If you think I'm wrong, give us a minute and second mark and I'll explain why you are wrong.
 
Derek Johnson said:
TBPE didn't let me take it in 09, I didn't work for a PE until 06 and they didn't count my undergrad or post-grad work experience when I didn't work under a PE. I'll take it this October, if TBPE doesn't object.
Click to expand...

Just because Derek was 15 on 9/11 and just because he is not licensed, does not mean that he cannot sign the ae911 petition. He has more expertiese and has more relevant experience to understand the performance and failure of tall buildings, than more than 95% of our petition signers
 
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Telltale Tom said:
Just because Derek was 15 on 9/11 and just because he is not licensed, does not mean that he cannot sign the ae911 petition. He has more expertiese and has more relevant experience to understand the performance and failure of tall buildings, than more than 95% of our petition signers
Click to expand...



Have I told you lately that you do beautiful work?
 
AJM8125 said:
As many times as a 110 story skyscraper has fallen on a 47 story one.
Click to expand...

Only once right........?

How exactly did the tower falling onto WTC7 assist in its own collapse(initiation or "manner of"), other than setting the fires?
 
ImANiceGuy said:
Only once right........?

How exactly did the tower falling onto WTC7 assist in its own collapse(initiation or "manner of"), other than setting the fires?
Click to expand...
.
By exactly damaging the south face with its debris, by exactly taking out the southwest corner between the 8th and 18th floors, by exactly creating a ten-story gash at the center / bottom of the structure.

Do you require a specific article on how things falling onto other things can cause such damage, and if so what exactly about this confuses you?
.
 
TSR said:
.
By exactly damaging the south face with its debris, by exactly taking out the southwest corner between the 8th and 18th floors, by exactly creating a ten-story gash at the center / bottom of the structure.

Do you require a specific article on how things falling onto other things can cause such damage, and if so what exactly about this confuses you?
.
Click to expand...

Sorry, please be patient with me. I've found that the exact wording of questions is important in this forum, due to the numerous common questions previously debunked, and the inpatience of skeptics for truthers.

What I mean by exactly is a little more literal than your explanation. Please let me reiterate.

1) Oystein said this: [Truthers] can't believe that a failure in one critical column would so rapidly propagate that the upper part of the fassade would fall in basically one piece.

2) Then Derek questioned the frequency of such a phenomenon:This happens much?

3) AJM8125 then answers with a rhetorical implication: As many times as a 110 story skyscraper has fallen on a 47 story one.

4) I interpret this implication as; the collapse of the tower onto WTC7 caused structural damage which aided in the collapse.

So my question again, more specifically, is: How exactly did the damage from the falling tower affect the collapse initiation? (causing the fires notwithstanding)
 
ImANiceGuy said:
So my question again, more specifically, is: How exactly did the damage from the falling tower affect the collapse initiation? (causing the fires notwithstanding)
Click to expand...
.
By exactly damaging the south face with its debris, large heavy objects tending to do that when impacting from a height, by exactly taking out the southwest corner between the 8th and 18th floors, by exactly creating a ten-story gash at the center / bottom of the structure.

Which of this is unclear?
.
 
TSR said:
.
By exactly damaging the south face with its debris, large heavy objects tending to do that when impacting from a height, by exactly taking out the southwest corner between the 8th and 18th floors, by exactly creating a ten-story gash at the center / bottom of the structure.

Which of this is unclear?
.
Click to expand...

Sorry once again, I must try to be clearer. I'm asking how the damage affected the collapse, not how it affected the building itself.

Just using the word 'exactly' to describe the damage is not exactly the specificity I'm looking for.
 
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