Rush Limbaugh: "Environmentalist Whackos blew it up!"

[Darth Rotor]

I'll concede the point that we don't know who exactly made this decision. Would you support a congressional inquiry to find out?

Why? The milk is spilled, sorry, that's oil.

All you need to do is look in the Congressional record to see if any discussion of this proposal took place on the floor of House or Senate, or any vote. IF yes, you know who voted how.

If no, then the lobby groups against it were successful in influencing legislators NOT to raise legislation on the matter. That most of the oil industry was likely against added restrictions is a good assumption to go on, but I'd look into various foundations and industry groups and check out the various white papers they put out in that time period: 2001-2005.

DR

 

[Unabogie]

Why? The milk is spilled, sorry, that's oil.

All you need to do is look in the Congressional record to see if any discussion of this proposal took place on the floor of House or Senate, or any vote. IF yes, you know who voted how.

If no, then the lobby groups against it were successful in influencing legislators NOT to raise legislation on the matter. That most of the oil industry was likely against added restrictions is a good assumption to go on, but I'd look into various foundations and industry groups and check out the various white papers they put out in that time period: 2001-2005.

DR

Are you sure about this? Every article points to the MMS as having the authority to order the policy. It wasn't up to Congress. The MMS is an arm of the EPA and they control oil policy and safety regulations. No votes required.

So if I am correct, and MMS was the agency who dropped the ball on this, why wouldn't we want to know who ordered it?

 

[Piggy]

I'll concede the point that we don't know who exactly made this decision. Would you support a congressional inquiry to find out?

By the way, did you read those articles about MMS I linked to? They were literally in bed with the oil industry. Literally. They were taking graft left and right. I think we can both agree that during Bush's reign, regulating the oil industry wasn't a high priority, judging by who he put in place and how they behaved.

Oh yeah, we're agreed there.

But no, I wouldn't support a congressional inquiry into the decision on the acoustic switches because it would be a tremendous waste of money and time that we really don't have to spare.

Before you jump into that kind of tar baby, you'd better have some damn good evidence that the decision was a bad one (and with only 2 nations passing such a mandate, and no real-world examples to demonstrate efficacy, we don't) and some sort of smoking gun to show improper influence.

 

[Unabogie]

Oh yeah, we're agreed there.

But no, I wouldn't support a congressional inquiry into the decision on the acoustic switches because it would be a tremendous waste of money and time that we really don't have to spare.

Before you jump into that kind of tar baby, you'd better have some damn good evidence that the decision was a bad one (and with only 2 nations passing such a mandate, and no real-world examples to demonstrate efficacy, we don't) and some sort of smoking gun to show improper influence.

Remember Dick Cheney's secret Energy Task Force? Mike Papantonio (liberal lawyer) is claiming that the oil execs made this call during those meetings. I have no idea where he's getting this from, so I don't vouch for it. But if that evidence exists and Cheney let oil execs write their own regs, and one of those regs was to nix a safety valve, I want to know about and I think it's important to put that in the record. I don't consider these things a waste of time. In our world of media apartheid there doesn't seem to be any shared truth anymore. We need records.

 

[Piggy]

Remember Dick Cheney's secret Energy Task Force? Mike Papantonio (liberal lawyer) is claiming that the oil execs made this call during those meetings. I have no idea where he's getting this from, so I don't vouch for it. But if that evidence exists and Cheney let oil execs write their own regs, and one of those regs was to nix a safety valve, I want to know about and I think it's important to put that in the record. I don't consider these things a waste of time. In our world of media apartheid there doesn't seem to be any shared truth anymore. We need records.

I'm skeptical that anyone has managed to get transcripts from those meetings.

But sure, I'd love to know what went on in those meetings, even if this was not discussed.

However, if you're talking about a Congressional inquiry, we've got to be realistic about it.

If oil industry reps lobbied against a mandate for acoustic switches, that fact alone is not worth the time and money and diversion of resources required for an inquiry just to find that out. Especially given the fact that (a) such mandates are the exception rather than the rule worldwide, and (b) there does not appear to be any way to assert that acoustic switches are effective, or that if they are, there was enough evidence available at the time to come to that conclusion.

We live in a world of choices, and launching an inquiry into this issue means not doing other things with that time, money, and manpower.

Suppose they find out that oil company reps did lobby strongly against mandating the switches, and that the administration agreed with them. What then?

Before undertaking such a task, you've got to have some reason to believe that it's going to be worth it. If you don't have that, you're talking about a very expensive fishing expedition during a time of deep recession and national debt.

On the other hand, if there is some solid reason to believe that there was mismanagement in general, and that there's a good possibility that unethical or illegal behavior was involved, then the case for an inquiry becomes stronger.

But even in that case, it still might not be necessary if we can take measures to fix the problem going forward without knowing the details of what happened in '03.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Are you sure about this? Every article points to the MMS as having the authority to order the policy. It wasn't up to Congress. The MMS is an arm of the EPA and they control oil policy and safety regulations. No votes required.

So if I am correct, and MMS was the agency who dropped the ball on this, why wouldn't we want to know who ordered it?

OK, I'll look at it in that light, EPA being an arm of the executive branch ... with Congressional oversight.

DR