Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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shuttlt said:
Could somebody tell me what the point of this argument is?
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Fiona made the claim, "They were not suggesting Patrick. She produced Patrick's name: it was not suggested to her and she said so in court, though it took a while to tease out the truth"

I refuted that claim.

Now somebody try to convince me that with all the phone tapping and phone record mining that went on leading up to the interrogations, the police did not find out who that text message had gone to until Amanda told him. Does anyone have a cell phone that does not keep a record of their outgoing messages?

If they knew about the message, they knew who it was sent to.
 
shuttlt said:
I agree. I've never bothered to read up on the child murderers claims in detail (I've gone blank on his name), or the other claims of mysterious strangers. I've been goaded to look this stuff up on Perugia-Shock before. It struck me as an impossible task then and it strikes me as an impossible task now. As you say, it seems rather unlikely that the owners of the unidentified prints will rise up out of the internet no matter how hard I Google.
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I think we've all been asked on this thread to go off on fishing expeditions. Here's one of mine more than 10,000 posts ago:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5400715&postcount=661

Fortunately, that one was easy to find once I discovered the "In Their Own Words" section at the PMF.

You're probably king of the fishing expeditions, though, as I saw how people reacted to your presence at Bruce's place.
 
Mary_H said:
Fiona made the claim, "They were not suggesting Patrick. She produced Patrick's name: it was not suggested to her and she said so in court, though it took a while to tease out the truth"

I refuted that claim.

Now somebody try to convince me that with all the phone tapping and phone record mining that went on leading up to the interrogations, the police did not find out who that text message had gone to until Amanda told him. Does anyone have a cell phone that does not keep a record of their outgoing messages?

If they knew about the message, they knew who it was sent to.
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Were the Police suggesting to Amanda that Patrick was the killer before she blurted it out?


No. So, Fiona was, in fact, correct. The Police were not suggesting Patrick to Amanda. Patrick's name was mentioned by Amanda before the Police. And no one suggested to Amanda that Patrick was guilty of the murder. They were inquiring as to whom she had sent the text.

Now, I know that is quite the blow to your arguments. But that's the bottom line, truth of the matter. Anything else is spin. Period. Period.
 
Mary_H said:
Well, in the interest of telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, I hope that if you go out into the world and tell people that Amanda uttered Patrick's name first, you would include the fact that it was because she was asked to identify who she had sent a text message to.
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Obviously.

She was asked about who she sent the text to: she said she did not remember. They did not believe her (and they were quite right, because she did then remember). But instead of saying who it was to and explaining what it meant, she accused him of murder.

The police did not "suggest" his name: they did not "suggest" he was a killer. They thought she had arranged to meet someone and they wanted to know who. Amanda thought the best idea was to accuse this perfectly innocent man of murder: there was no need for that and no justification for it.
 
Mary_H said:
Now somebody try to convince me that with all the phone tapping and phone record mining that went on leading up to the interrogations, the police did not find out who that text message had gone to until Amanda told him. Does anyone have a cell phone that does not keep a record of their outgoing messages?

If they knew about the message, they knew who it was sent to.
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What has the outgoing message log got to do with it? The police would only have had access to that when she handed over the phone. If there had been a name associated with the message there surely wouldn't have been questions about who the SMS was from? For all we know she had him in her phone book under "P", or not at all.
 
shuttlt said:
Mary, I realize I'm starting to be rude by repeatedly asking the same question, but are you saying that the whole Giobbi meme is wrong and you don't believe the police suspected Amanda and Raffaele from day 1?
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After they had her in custody, Giobbi said he had suspected her from Day One. That's kind of like a huffing and puffing braggadocio -- "I knew it all along!"

That the police were "interested" in Amanda doesn't mean that it occurred to them right away that she was involved in the murder. That scheme had to brew for a few days while they figured out ways to frame her and keep her in their clutches.

Yeah, yeah, I know -- that ain't gonna fly here. Save it.
 
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Mary_H said:
After they had her in custody, Giobbi said he had suspected her from Day One. That's kind of like a huffing and puffing braggadocio -- "I knew it all along!"

That the police were "interested" in Amanda doesn't mean that it occurred to them right away that she was involved in the murder. That scheme had to brew for a few days whiled they figured out ways to frame her and keep her in their clutches.

Yeah, yeah, I know -- that ain't gonna fly here. Save it.
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Again, this is quite the Conspiracy you've brewed up here, Mary.

Anytime you'd like to present evidence of said conspiracy, let us know. IN the meantime, please open your mind to the information/facts that are being presented to you.
 
Mary_H said:
Fiona made the claim, "They were not suggesting Patrick. She produced Patrick's name: it was not suggested to her and she said so in court, though it took a while to tease out the truth"

I refuted that claim.

Now somebody try to convince me that with all the phone tapping and phone record mining that went on leading up to the interrogations, the police did not find out who that text message had gone to until Amanda told him. Does anyone have a cell phone that does not keep a record of their outgoing messages?

If they knew about the message, they knew who it was sent to.
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How would they know the message was to Patrick when Amanda sent it to Patrick BEFORE the murder and BEFORE they were monitoring her phone calls? They didn't have access to her phone, only the network.
 
Fiona said:
She was asked about who she sent the text to: she said she did not remember. They did not believe her (and they were quite right, because she did then remember). But instead of saying who it was to and explaining what it meant, she accused him of murder.
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QED
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Were the Police suggesting to Amanda that Patrick was the killer before she blurted it out?
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We don't know the answer to that question because we don't have a record of what was said at the interrogation.

No. So, Fiona was, in fact, correct. The Police were not suggesting Patrick to Amanda. Patrick's name was mentioned by Amanda before the Police. And no one suggested to Amanda that Patrick was guilty of the murder. They were inquiring as to whom she had sent the text.
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It absolutely is a suggestion to ask someone who a specific message was sent to when they already knew the answer.
 
Mary_H said:
After they arrested him.
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How many days had passed from the time of Meredith's murder until Patrick's arrest? And--bonus question--how many times were RS and AK questioned as witnesses in the meantime?
 
Mary_H said:
After they had her in custody, Giobbi said he had suspected her from Day One. That's kind of like a huffing and puffing braggadocio -- "I knew it all along!"

That the police were "interested" in Amanda doesn't mean that it occurred to them right away that she was involved in the murder. That scheme had to brew for a few days whiled they figured out ways to frame her and keep her in their clutches.

Yeah, yeah, I know -- that ain't gonna fly here. Save it.
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No he didn't. Where did he say that? You're just making stuff up now.
 
Mary_H said:
After they had her in custody, Giobbi said he had suspected her from Day One. That's kind of like a huffing and puffing braggadocio -- "I knew it all along!"

That the police were "interested" in Amanda doesn't mean that it occurred to them right away that she was involved in the murder. That scheme had to brew for a few days whiled they figured out ways to frame her and keep her in their clutches.

Yeah, yeah, I know -- that ain't gonna fly here. Save it.
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No, I'm perfectly prepared to entertain the possibility that the police weren't actually that suspicious of Amanda and didn't have her pegged as being involved until after the interrogation. It's just quite a different position to most of the other pro-Amanda posters I've talked to. When do you think they started to suspect her and why?
 
Mary H said:
We don't know the answer to that question because we don't have a record of what was said at the interrogation.
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We do know that. Amanda herself admitted the police hadn't on the stand.
 
stilicho said:
How many days had passed from the time of Meredith's murder until Patrick's arrest? And--bonus question--how many times were RS and AK questioned as witnesses in the meantime?
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Four days.

Ya got me. I would say at least once a day.
 
Fulcanelli said:
No he didn't. Where did he say that? You're just making stuff up now.
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My fault, I'm being too relaxed in my word choice. There is the whole line about Giobbi and the psychological observations that led them to suspect Amanda and Raffaele. It's been thrown at me in the past as a 'suspected from day 1' thing, but I don't know for sure whether it's day 1, day 2, or day 3 he's referring to.
 
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