Invitation to Derek Johnson to discuss his ideas

[aggle-rithm]

Yep, any half competent employer will simply google "Derek Johnson engineer"
and his 911 garbage is #1 hit. That should take him off any shortlist

It's funny how truthers believe that no one, out of the thousands of people that would have had to been in on the conspiracy, have spoken out because they're afraid of losing their jobs...and yet they are more than willing to risk their own careers by publicly disseminating nonsense.

I guess they're just made of sterner stuff than the sheeple.

 

[Kent1]

This is a terrible thread. Derek is hardly addressing the refutations and errors in his presentation. His only reply seems to be, "bias source." or some embarrassing word salad reply. It would help if he actually read the posts here.

 

[Scott Sommers]

I have contact through Facebook with many active Truthers. One of the most striking things about them, as a group, is their poor job search skills. Like many non-Truthers, Truthers post resumes on their Facebook accounts. It is not uncommon to see such Truther resumes filled with spelling mistakes and other typos. This is ironic coming from people who claim that the economy is controlled by some invsible mysterious force. Perhaps it's this, and not poor command of their native langauge, that explains their job search problems.

So Welder Derek tells us that some of the leading engineers in the world are "incompetent". And he knows because he found the real skinny on a 911 Truth site. Hmmm, I wonder if this is going to effect his perfromance in the world of real work? I wonder if that'll be part of the conspiracy.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Derek's career. I suspect an future in engineering will have its limits. Keep us informed.

 

[tsig]

I have contact through Facebook with many active Truthers. One of the most striking things about them, as a group, is their poor job search skills. Like many non-Truthers, Truthers post resumes on their Facebook accounts. It is not uncommon to see such Truther resumes filled with spelling mistakes and other typos. This is ironic coming from people who claim that the economy is controlled by some invsible mysterious force. Perhaps it's this, and not poor command of their native langauge, that explains their job search problems.

So Welder Derek tells us that some of the leading engineers in the world are "incompetent". And he knows because he found the real skinny on a 911 Truth site. Hmmm, I wonder if this is going to effect his perfromance in the world of real work? I wonder if that'll be part of the conspiracy.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Derek's career. I suspect an future in engineering will have its limits. Keep us informed.

Looks like he wants to follow Gage's career path.

I wonder how Derek likes his fellow truthers here. Jam, RedIblis, Bill Smith, JJ, and all the rest.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Truther makes a false claim, like in this example with suddenly collapsing with freefall speed. while free fall was only later.
but instead of debunkers pointing out the error some wannabe debunkers comes along and is explaining how that is totaly normal, like when someone is kicking away your chair from under your butt.

To be fair, not everyone did that. Not to toot my own horn, but I did note the full characterization of that particular issue:

This has been discussed many times before; here's one thread. Summary: David Chandler discovered that there was a brief period of unresisted collapse bounded by periods of resisted collapse. Or in short, the drop is only part of the story, and merely indicates that the perimeter of the buildings was in unresisted collapse - free fall - for only a small portion of its descent. The most this indicates is that some floors failed together as a unit. How this is supposed to indicate anything suspicious, I'd love to know. But free fall =/= demolitions, let alone free fall for only a small portion of the collapse.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but Mr. Johnson is yet to point out what's significant about this free fall period noted in WTC 7's collapse. If the assertion is that it indicates intentional demolitions, then the obvious question is why there was a period of resisted collapse immediately before and immediatly after that noted free fall period.

 

[sylvan8798]

To be fair, debunker ref pointed out that error:

Furthermore, a simple 1/2gt² calculation shows that Derek's claimed 100 feet of free fall in 2.25 seconds (thrice-repeated, in posts 327, 505, and 532) cannot have been a sudden collapse at the beginning.

Ah, man, ya had to go and get all mathy on us. How's we common folk sposed to keep up?

 

[Scott Sommers]

Looks like he wants to follow Gage's career path.

I wonder how Derek likes his fellow truthers here. Jam, RedIblis, Bill Smith, JJ, and all the rest.

It's much worse than this. University faculty that advocate 911 Truth (Steven Jones, Judy Wood, Kevin Barrett), as well as government officials (Van Jones) have all been fired and now wonder the world jobless. Why doesn't Welder Derek seem to know this? Because for some reason that I can't understand, Truthers themselves don't seem to care about this.

But Derek, they've all been fired. Good luck with the job search.

 

[Derek Johnson]

Derek frequently asserts here and in the videos that the girders between columns 79 and 44 were restrained and composite to the slab because of the shear studs on these girders.
Wrong.

NCSTAR 1-9 repeatedly notes the absence of shear studs on these girders. Pdf pages 14 ,59, 385, 386,387, 390,393,402,403

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 1.pdf

If Derek is going to call NIST’s report “Half-baked” and its members “liars … frauds” he should know WTC7 cold, otherwise people might think he doesn’t know what he is talking about.


.

I've seen quite a few structures, never once did a pan deck not get shear stud welded above the beams/girders in a column-beam design. Column-bar joist, only a few. But why does NIST show diagrams with shear studs, such as the one earlier in this thread? Is there something about shear studs that would disallow the office fire thermal expansion walking girder woo?

Also:

http://cryptome.org/wtc-nist-wtc7-no.pdf

"Dear Mr. Brookman,

This letter is in response to your Jan 1, 2010 FOIA #10-037 request to NIST in which you requested a copy of "the structural calculations or ANSYS analysis results that substantiate the walk-off failures at columns 79 and 81."

...

Enclosed you will find a disc that contains 8,910 files that can be released and are responsive to your request. The files on the disc contain input files of a version of the 16-story ANSYS model of the WTC 7 structure, which does not include the connection models and was analyzed with service gravity loads, and Case B temperature files.

We are, however, withholding 3,370 files. The NIST Director determined that the release of these data might jeopardize public safety. This withheld data include the remaining input and all results files of the ANSYS 16-story Case B collapse initiation model, break element source code. ANSYS scripts files for the break elements, custom executable ANSYS file, and all spreadsheets and other supporting calculations used to develop floor connection failure modes and capacities.

...

The statue underlying the b3 exemption in this case is the National Construction Safety Team (NCST) Act, 15 USC section 7301 et seq...provides that it applies to activities of NIST in response to the attacks of September 11, 2001. Section 7d of the NCST Act exempts from disclosure, information received by NIST in the course of investigations regarding building failures if the (NIST) Director finds that the disclosure of the information might jeopardize public safety. On July 9, 2009, the Director of NIST determined that release of the withheld information might jeopardize public safety. Therefore, these records are being withheld..

Sincerely,
Catherine S. Fletcher
Freedom of Information Act Officer

...but JREF forum participants remain UNskeptical.

Amazing!

 

[BigAl]

bump

Derek,
Here's my take on you list of alleged eyewitnesses. I'd like your take on it, especially the firemen talking about "rivers of molten steel."

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5880929#post5880929


By the way, if you have the ear of Mr. Gage, please ask him to come to NYC and give his presentation where eyewitnesses and first responders have a chance to compare what he says to what they saw.

Members of "Structural Engineers Assoc of NYC" were on-site and heavily involved at WTC starting about noon on 9/11. We can make sure they hear about the event.

http://seaony.org/

 

[Derek Johnson]

bump

So, with the molten steel quotes, everyone is lying, mistaking, misquoting or exaggerating, yes?

A welder I did a PQR on for an Army Corp of Engineers job was at WTC from Oct 2001 to roughly May 2002 (as far as I remember him telling me). His job was to move the debris, loaded into his truck from WTC to the port. His debris, as far as he could tell wasn't analyzed, it was shipped off from the port (as far as he knew). He was not allowed access to many parts of the cleanup site, he was not allowed to "roam", he was often escorted, his truck had a GPS and was not allowed any other route that the one ordered, he was timed and was issued a cell phone which he had to answer and use exclusively while on duty.

He went to WTC to help out as an experienced welder/steel worker. He only drove a truck and wasn't allowed to take pictures or use his own cell phone while at work. He's skeptical, like me, of the official line of events and is skeptical, like me, of the subsequent investigative efforts, I know him well and can talk to him again about his time at WTC. I'll have a chat with him about this alleged "molten steel" and get his thoughts on this.

Although others have made up their minds and cannot possibly consider otherwise with all things 9-11 conspiracy, I'm still attempting sorting it out, and I really hope y'all are right with "no molten steel", and magic walking breaking seat connection girders from office fire thermal expansion (woo) that led to 2+ seconds of an unopposed drop suggesting that 8 floors of a massive redundant building offered no resistance to such drop.

Mr. Randi was a skeptic, right?

 

[Scott Sommers]

So, with the molten steel quotes, everyone is lying, mistaking, misquoting or exaggerating, yes?

A welder I did a PQR on for an Army Corp of Engineers job was at WTC from Oct 2001 to roughly May 2002 (as far as I remember him telling me). His job was to move the debris, loaded into his truck from WTC to the port. His debris, as far as he could tell wasn't analyzed, it was shipped off from the port (as far as he knew). He was not allowed access to many parts of the cleanup site, he was not allowed to "roam", he was often escorted, his truck had a GPS and was not allowed any other route that the one ordered, he was timed and was issued a cell phone which he had to answer and use exclusively while on duty.

He went to WTC to help out as an experienced welder/steel worker. He only drove a truck and wasn't allowed to take pictures or use his own cell phone while at work. He's skeptical, like me, of the official line of events and is skeptical, like me, of the subsequent investigative efforts, I know him well and can talk to him again about his time at WTC. I'll have a chat with him about this alleged "molten steel" and get his thoughts on this.

Although others have made up their minds and cannot possibly consider otherwise with all things 9-11 conspiracy, I'm still attempting sorting it out, and I really hope y'all are right with "no molten steel", and magic walking breaking seat connection girders from office fire thermal expansion (woo) that led to 2+ seconds of an unopposed drop suggesting that 8 floors of a massive redundant building offered no resistance to such drop.

Mr. Randi was a skeptic, right?

This is the joke, right? You're going to ask another welder about this. That's sure to be really convincing. And does this mean you were throwing names at an elite engineering community with no more research about it than surfing 911 Truther sites? I'd like to believe this is wrong. Have you done any research that isn't based on surfing 911 Truther sites?

By the way, I'm still waiting for quotes from engineering textbooks and course outlines that talk about controlled demolition at the WTC collapses. And no more cut & paste from 911 Truth sites. I've seen all that before.

 

[BillyRayValentine]

So, with the molten steel quotes, everyone is lying, mistaking, misquoting or exaggerating, yes?

Why do you people fixate on this molten steel nonsense? As you may or may not be aware, the underground, compressed rubble piles burned very hot for quite a long time. Hot enough to melt a number of metals, among other things. So it stands to reason that a number of people had occasion to see molten something. Which they then referred to as molten steel, in the vernacular.

Apparently you believe that they called it molten steel because, yes, they knew it was molten steel, and not molten something else. Uh, how exactly did they come by this knowledge?

I've only briefly lurked on this thread, but from all appearances, you're not doing your career any favors here.

 

[Derek Johnson]

Why do you people fixate on this molten steel nonsense? As you may or may not be aware, the underground, compressed rubble piles burned very hot for quite a long time. Hot enough to melt a number of metals, among other things. So it stands to reason that a number of people had occasion to see molten something. Which they then referred to as molten steel, in the vernacular.

Apparently you believe that they called it molten steel because, yes, they knew it was molten steel, and not molten something else. Uh, how exactly did they come by this knowledge?

I've only briefly lurked on this thread, but from all appearances, you're not doing your career any favors here.

So all that claimed they saw molten steel really meant something else, they all goofed by saying "molten steel". They were all in error, maybe unintentionally, but in error nevertheless. That is the official JREF forum participant story and they are sticking with it. Amazing!

See here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5893292&postcount=697

Edited by Locknar: 

Continuing to post, and re-post the same content could be considered Flooding (or Spamming). Post edited.

 

[Oystein]

So all that claimed they saw molten steel really meant something else, they all goofed by saying "molten steel". They were all in error, maybe unintentionally, but in error nevertheless. That is the official JREF forum participant story and they are sticking with it. Amazing!
...

The only amazing thing is that you don't show to us that YOU or anyone at all are able to determine the make-up of molten, glowing things by just looking at them, by ignoring this easy test:

Ok. I make YOU an eyewitness to hot-glowing things.

Exhibit #1:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/293967938_fefbfba958.jpg?v=0
What is it?

Exhibit #2:
http://www.ekoref.com/images/pro_20.jpg
What is it?

Exhibit #3:
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/78...40715C8DD1FCBF9CBF80B9CB893ECE30A760B0D811297
What is it?

Exhibit #4:
http://www.jameslockman.com/jamesblog/down_the_hole.jpg
What is it?

Exhibt #5:
http://gallery.usgs.gov/images/05_26_2009/nr2Tlx8KKf_05_26_2009/medium/Drip2.JPG
What is it?

Exhibit #6:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/368337809_e92e87064f.jpg?v=0
What is it?

Exhibit #7:
http://www.exametal.com/images/P1120315.jpg
What is it?

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

So you ever going to do the molten test? IT's not hard, it's in quite a few posts..

ETA: And Oystein crossposts with me..

 

[R.Mackey]

...might jeopardize public safety?

How?

ITAR.

The same computer code can be used to research, for instance, ballistic penetrators and effects on armor. It's illegal to export this technology without approval of the State Department, hence no unrestricted release.

This, by the way, is another thing that an engineer really should be familiar with.

You have an enormous pile of responses, questions, and other issues that you've completely ignored and run from. Very, very typical.

 

[Derek Johnson]

The only amazing thing is that you don't show to us that YOU or anyone at all are able to determine the make-up of molten, glowing things by just looking at them, by ignoring this easy test:

The only amazing thing is the lack of skepticism at a forum that honors a truly great skeptic. The JREF position is that all the "molten steel" witness statements are in error. This is what I was trying to draw out of TFK in January and I finally made it.

All "molten steel" quotes are in error, all "molten steel" quotes are accidently wrong, all "molten steel" witnesses really meant something else, not molten steel....definately NOT molten steel. Got it. Thanks for the thoroughly amazing woo.

See here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5893292&postcount=697

Edited by Locknar: 

Continuing to post, and re-post the same content could be considered Flooding (or Spamming). Post edited.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

#696. Also dodge noted.

 

[Derek Johnson]

ITAR.

The same computer code can be used to research, for instance, ballistic penetrators and effects on armor. It's illegal to export this technology without approval of the State Department, hence no unrestricted release.

This, by the way, is another thing that an engineer really should be familiar with.

You have an enormous pile of responses, questions, and other issues that you've completely ignored and run from. Very, very typical.

Sorry I'm not a full time conspiracy forum magnate like you, Ryan.

Not one person here can explain how the 79 to 44 girder "walked off" from office fire thermal expansion (no need to discuss degrees of freedom or FEA substantiaion of this ROOT BUILDING FAILURE CAUSE, that would make far too much sense), nor can or has anyone explained in any level of detail how the (81 lateral beam-girder & concrete deck as well as built up diagonal structural steel connected) column buckling transients were of such unusual time values, which they would have to be for such a sudden collapse to occur, defying what we know of structural steel and it's 20% elongation properties, it’s remarkable fracture toughness that, bottom line, makes it the ultimate building material…and then suddenly collapsing 8 floors or roughly 63,000,000 lbm (significant portion A36 built up 1000+ lb/ft column mass) unopposed! Unopposed from some strange office fire walking girder thermal expansion woo that happened within that NIST won’t explain fully nor release the technical details of due to jeopardizing public safety.

Nothing-strange-there Ryan...nosir!

And you don't bat an eye at the NIST director withholding data that includes the remaining input and all results files of the ANSYS 16-story Case B collapse initiation model, break element source code, ANSYS scripts files for the break elements, custom executable ANSYS file, and all spreadsheets and other supporting calculations used to develop floor connection failure modes and capacities.

Amazing skepticism! Where else but an internet forum could brain activity be so anaesthetized?

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Actually, I think it has been explained. To the point where it's easy to follow if you just open your blinders.