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Would a Flying Saucer leave a contrail?

Okie dokes, no further argument here about supersonic flight. I actually know more about sonic booms and stuff than I've been letting on, but it was a good excuse to post some cool clips, and I'm not going to be silly enough to try and use YouTube as reference.

Back to the OP though, I'll argue come hell or high water that you can get contrails from a rock if you throw it hard enough.

They are a product of the Venturi effect that produces lift, be it generated by wings, turbine blades, propellors, helicopter rotors or really fast rocks.
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Like the Shuttle.
Watching Columbia return from its first flight... Came over Edwards at 50,000 feet, and 2 minutes later was landing.
Reminded me of what a tool box dropped from that altitude would do. :)
But the Shuttle could flare just before touchdown.
 
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Like the Shuttle.
Watching Columbia return from its first flight... Came over Edwards at 50,000 feet, and 2 minutes later was landing.
Reminded me of what a tool box dropped from that altitude would do. :)
But the Shuttle could flare just before touchdown.


What a ride!

Aaaaaand . . . an opening for yet another video. Or three. C'mon . . . it's the Space Shuttle.

:)








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High altitude contrails are composed of ice crystals. Water vapor is not visible, and liquid water cannot exist at those altitudes. Sublimation generally occurs. WV to ice and then back.
 
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High altitude contrails are composed of ice crystals. Water vapor is not visible, and liquid water cannot exist at those altitudes. Sublimation generally occurs. WV to ice and then back.


What if you went really, really, really high?


FlyMeToTheMoon.jpg
 
I've seen 'Serenity' and the Reavers could definately leave a smoke trail inside of an atmosphere.
 
So why do they form behind engines instead of over the full width of the wing?


The condensation shown in those other photos is purely localised over the wing and doesn't leave a trail, and it only occurs in high-lift situations when the wing is in a very high angle of attack. You can get that from airliners on take off and landing, but you won't get it when flying straight and level. Even if it was happening at 35,000ft, because you're so far away (and looking from below - the condensation occurs above the wing) you won't see it as there's no "trail".

You do get trails from vortices which only occur at the tip of wings or at other interruptions of the wing plane, however they're less likely to occur at higher altitudes because

A) Air is thinner, so there's necessarily a lower concentration of water vapour to condense - in contrast the water vapour that condenses to form your classic contrails comes from the engines
B) The air is very cold, so there's less likelihood of the vortex core causing a sufficient shift in air temperature to cause condensation - in contrast your classic contrail is formed because the water vapour in the engine exhaust is warm, and cools as it hits the cold air
C) Vortices are a by product of wings generating lift and are greater at high angles of attack, and particularly when flaps or spoilers are deployed - they're more likely to produce contrails at lower altitude and when taking off and landing
D) Vortices are unavoidable but they're also a bad thing because they reduce the amount of lift a wing can generate. Airliners have long thin wings in order to reduce the amount of vortices, at the sacrifice of maneuverability (fighter aircraft, with their short stubby wings, sacrifice lift efficiency and generate much greater vortices for their size). Many airliners go the further step of reducing vortices even more by having vertical winglets at the end of the wings. The larger the vortex, the faster it spins and therefore the greater the pressure drop in the core, thus the more likely you'll get a contrail.

Because the contrails from prop-driven aircraft and helicopters are also caused by airfoils (the propeller blades) the same general principles apply as for wings listed above.

Hope that explains it.
 
High altitude contrails are composed of ice crystals. Water vapor is not visible, and liquid water cannot exist at those altitudes. Sublimation generally occurs. WV to ice and then back.


Um... anyone who has ever boiled a jug of water can confirm that water vapour is indeed visible. In fact, look up into the sky on any day there's cloud, and you can confirm it for yourself. Contrails can indeed be composed of ice crystals, but they need not be.
 
Um... anyone who has ever boiled a jug of water can confirm that water vapour is indeed visible. In fact, look up into the sky on any day there's cloud, and you can confirm it for yourself.

No, water vapor is not visible. Clouds are water, condensed into droplets, not vapor.

If you look at a contrail, the visible part doesn't form until it's some distance behind the plane. The invisible part is when it's vapor, then it cools, condenses, and becomes the visible trail.
 
No, water vapor is not visible. Clouds are water, condensed into droplets, not vapor.

Yep, and all high altitude clouds are composed of ice crystals because it's so darn cold way up there. The WV in the exhaust way up there sublimes directly from vapor to ice to become visible. It's never liquid at all. When the high altitude contrail disappears, the ice sublimes back into water vapor and you can't see it anymore.

Under certain special conditions you can get "supercooled" liquid water, but we are just talking in general terms here.
 

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