Noah's Ark found?

[Radrook]

But a flat Earth would still have to hang somewhere*, so the quote from Job doesn't say anything about the shape of it, and circles are not spheres.

This is hilarious! The Hebrew word used says NOTHING about shape! The Hebrew language had no word for sphere. Could that be the reason they didn't use the word sphere?

Moreover, though, those books were written describing the post Genesis Earth, after God rolled it up into a ball to make its current shape.

It's hard to discuss things calmly when one fuming about God every other sentence isn't it?

That's true, but I'm not sure it really changes my point. I could have said "a 600 year old man who would end up living another 300 years", but the point is that in order for that to happen, things would have to be very, very, different than they are today.

Who is arguing that things were the same? The imaginary strawman in your corner over there? Misrepresentation only serves to erode credibility.

I'm just going by the language of the King James Bible. If it was good enough for Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, it's good enough for me.

Language isn't the problem It's your need to understand language in certain ways that is your problem. So according to you Mathew Mark Luke and John were fans of the KJV that was made hundreds of years after their death? This is getting better all the time!

BTW
If you go by the KJV language you wind up believing in unicorns and satyrs. The kjv translators had a knack for that sort of thing.

So, where are they? Do the math. All the aquifers in the world aren't big enough to hold it, unless you are asserting the existence of some truly amazingly large underground seas down there in the Earth, mixed in with all the magma. I haven't discussed this theory with any physicists, but I suspect they would have issues with it.

Course they would. Especially with the way you cunningly misrepresent and twist everything said in order to get that reaction.

Of course, world geography could have been different back then. The mountains might not have been as tall, or the oceans as deep. The extent of dry land in Noah's day might have been much smaller, so less additional water was needed. In this theory, God releases all the water from above the dome of the sky, which is enough to flood all the existing dry land.

That's YOUR convenient version of the account. I'm not going to repeat myself with previous explanations.

Then, he raises the mountains higher and digs deeper valleys and ocean trenches, causing the land to reappear above the surface of the water. This is certainly plausible, and solves a real problem with the flood narrative. Most of the time when water recedes, it either drains to a lower place, as when a river in flood gradually sends the water down to the ocean, or it evaporates. However, with the worldwide flood, there was no lower place, and any evaporation would just fall back to Earth as rain. The apparent recession may simply have been the result of divine reshaping of the land to lower the level of ocean trenches to store all the water.

So you prefer to attribute it to an ID. Cool! No problemo!

Of course, another possibility is that God let the water flow over the edge of the world until enough had vanished, and then He rolled the Earth into a ball when there was just the right amount of water left.

An edge YOU deliriously claim existed.

*unless it's elephants all the way down.

Good jokes! : )

 

[Robin]

I, for one, are deeply, *deeply*, shocked.

Ditto. I haven't been this disillusioned since it was revealed that the grainy footage that looked like a guy in an ape suit, was in fact a guy in an ape suit.

 

[Nonpareil]

This is hilarious! The Hebrew word used says NOTHING about shape! The Hebrew language had no word for sphere. Could that be the reason they didn't use the word sphere?

Actually, it did. It had "duwr". The word it used, though, was "chuwg", which very definitely means a flat circle, like a coin.

 

[tsig]

The sad thing is that that's a more "logical" answer to my questions in Post #511 than anything the literal-flood people seem to have come up with.

I expect we'll see it soon on AiG, creation science seems to lag a decade* or so behind real science.

*sometimes centuries

 

[Meadmaker]

This is hilarious! The Hebrew word used says NOTHING about shape! The Hebrew language had no word for sphere. Could that be the reason they didn't use the word sphere?

If it says nothing about shape (correction: NOTHING about shape) why did you bring it up?

Actually the Bible does describe the earth as spherical and appearing to hover in space as if on nothing.

Job 26:
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hang Earth the earth upon nothing.

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth....ends of ts

And thanks to Pure Argent for the Hebrew lesson.


AS for the rest of your post, yes, I made up all of this flat Earth stuff. That's the point. Now, though, I am asking whether or not you find it plausible or implausible. I'm suggesting that it is no more implausible than a global flood.

The point is to make people think. The story of Noah's flood works for some people, especially the ancient people, because it takes a commonly observed phenomenon, a flood, and magnifies it to Biblical proportions. (Pun intended.) We know about floods. Now imagine if God caused a flood. It would be the biggest, most amazing flood that ever happened. He's so powerful, that he could flood the whole damned (pun intended) Earth if he wanted to.

OK. Fine. Far be it from me to put limits on omnipotence. If he wants the water, he gets the water. The problem is that he can't do all that, and simultaneously make his laws of physics work. There isn't enough water. He has to add and subtract water to cover the world and make the water recede. Once again, I'm not complaining. It's his water. It's his laws. He wrote the law of conservation of mass. He can suspend it at his leisure.

So, how far will you take this? How about to a flat Earth? We know that the Earth is round...today. But has it always been round?

Or is that just stupid?

 

[Radrook]

This claim was debunked in post #323

That's tantamount to claiming that these tests are worthless doesn't fly in face of trhe evidence to the contrary. Go tell the Japanese that testing buildings and other s in minature in order to design earthquake proof buildings is worthless. Somehow I suspect they won't buy either.

BTW
I'm having difficulty with typing. Words and sentences typed on one line jump to the top of a paragraph, and other unpredictable places in the composition
forcing me repeatedly unravel the mess. Any suggestions on how to fix this?

 

[Radrook]

If it says nothing about shape (correction: NOTHING about shape) why did you bring it up?

That's a typo. I meant to say ape., o be claiming it says nothing about shthat you seem t.

I leave the above aS ANB EXAMPLE of the struggle I'm having ewith this blasted machine!aim
Again, I meant to say that you appear to claim it says nothing about sh


ape.

Somebody pleas a proble.nalyse the above and give me a solution to this

kes a conversation impossible.
Trying to unravel such a mess ma

And thanks to Pure Argent for the Hebrew lesson.


AS for the rest of your post, yes, I made up all of this flat Earth stuff. That's the point. Now, though, I am asking whether or not you find it plausible or implausible. I'm suggesting that it is no more implausible than a global flood.

The point is to make people think. The story of Noah's flood works for some people, especially the ancient people, because it takes a commonly observed phenomenon, a flood, and magnifies it to Biblical proportions. (Pun intended.) We know about floods. Now imagine if God caused a flood. It would be the biggest, most amazing flood that ever happened. He's so powerful, that he could flood the whole damned (pun intended) Earth if he wanted to.

OK. Fine. Far be it from me to put limits on omnipotence. If he wants the water, he gets the water. The problem is that he can't do all that, and simultaneously make his laws of physics work. There isn't enough water. He has to add and subtract water to cover the world and make the water recede. Once again, I'm not complaining. It's his water. It's his laws. He wrote the law of conservation of mass. He can suspend it at his leisure.

So, how far will you take this? How about to a flat Earth? We know that the Earth is round...today. But has it always been round?

Or is that just stupid?

Sorry but can't continue until problem is fixed.

 

[Simon39759]

Middle Eastern Cosmology

The Mesopotamian cosmological model at the time is fairly well known and involves a flat earth sandwiched between the deep waters (from where the subterranean sources presumably spring forth) and covered with a dome that is itself surrounded by more water (and sometime fall through the dome, leading to rains):

This model certainly fits the passage:

God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing

At least as well as reality (hence, I seen no particular insight from the Bible's authors).
It's also much more consistent with the description of the deluge when God opens the windows of heavens and breaks up the fountain of the deep.


In other words, it seems clear to me that the Hebrew shared the Mesopotamian cosmological model, maybe they had adopted it during the exile, presumably it came alongside of the myth of Gilgamesh...

 

[Nonpareil]

And thanks to Pure Argent for the Hebrew lesson.

No problem. Happy to help.

 

[Ausmerican]

I just love the concept of 4000m high flood waters. It would had to have rained a darn sight longer than 40 days and 40 nights, lol

I read a paper on this once that surmised, given the height of Everest and the area of the Earth, it would mean that each square foot of the planet would have the rough equivalent of 30 firehoses at full power trained on it to get the job done in the 40 day/night timeframe.

Train 30 full power firehoses at pretty much any patch of ground and it will take less than a minute to destroy it utterly.

 

[kedo1981]

Would anyone like to join in a discussion thread on the viability of Jacks magic beanstalk, or if you can use geese tied to a rug to fly to the moon?
There is nothing in the deluge myth that is taken seriously by any body but Fundamentalists, I doubt there are any Jews (or very many) that take it literally.

Funny thing, Darth lambasted me for bringing up the “God killing the babies” aspect of the myth (the response from Darth was so what) “do you want this thread to be about abortion”, but you go to “Rapture ready.com” and search Noah’s Ark and you’ll get article after article about how the bible says that in the last days the worlds people will behave like the pre flood humans, and one of the signs is the sacrifice of children and of course the RR site equates that with abortion, not bringing up of course that God drowned the children and unborn in the flood myth.
Apart from that it’s starting to look more and more like the local Kurdish tour guides around Ararat have been scamming Ark hunters by placing the wood there and building the simple structures.

 

[dasmiller]

I read a paper on this once that surmised, given the height of Everest and the area of the Earth, it would mean that each square foot of the planet would have the rough equivalent of 30 firehoses at full power trained on it to get the job done in the 40 day/night timeframe.

Train 30 full power firehoses at pretty much any patch of ground and it will take less than a minute to destroy it utterly.

My math isn't supporting that . . . if you'll indulge me, I'm going to work in english units for a moment:

A 1 foot square column of water, 29,000 feet tall, would have about 230,000 gallons of water. For 40 days, that's 5750 gallons/day or 240 gallons/hour or 4 gallons/minute. You can do that with a garden hose (pretty easily, I think).

I'm not supporting the biblical account of the Flood, I'm just trying to keep the math consistent.

 

[Ausmerican]

My math isn't supporting that . . . if you'll indulge me, I'm going to work in english units for a moment:

A 1 foot square column of water, 29,000 feet tall, would have about 230,000 gallons of water. For 40 days, that's 5750 gallons/day or 240 gallons/hour or 4 gallons/minute. You can do that with a garden hose (pretty easily, I think).

I'm not supporting the biblical account of the Flood, I'm just trying to keep the math consistent.

You may well be right and it certainly looks that way. I was never bothered checking their math as there were so many other holes in the Noah story anyway what with available space, food supply, species distribution, fish survival, structual strength, every other major and minor detail of the story, etc.

 

[dasmiller]

. . .as there were so many other holes in the Noah story anyway what with available space, food supply, species distribution, fish survival, structual strength, every other major and minor detail of the story, etc.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Radrook]

I really wish to particippart but this computer is driving me bananas. I just went to a place seeking advice and they said I might have scroll lock on. I fiddled with the scroll lock and now it seems to be working OK. Hopefully it will remain this way. In any case I was just interested in the proposed vessel's seaworthiness. It was a response to the constant remarks about the ark sinking to the bottom if placed in water. As for hypothesizing about flat earths and the like that really doesn't interest me as much.

 

[Meadmaker]

That's a typo. I meant to say ape., o be claiming it says nothing about shthat you seem t.

I leave the above aS ANB EXAMPLE of the struggle I'm having ewith this blasted machine!aim
Again, I meant to say that you appear to claim it says nothing about sh


ape.

Somebody pleas a proble.nalyse the above and give me a solution to this

kes a conversation impossible.
Trying to unravel such a mess ma




Sorry but can't continue until problem is fixed.

No problem. At the first line above, I was really puzzled. What the heck do apes have to do with this? After a couple of other lines, I got it. Good luck with that.

 

[kerikiwi]

In any case I was just interested in the proposed vessel's seaworthiness.

Which vessel? The one described in genesis?
There is no way of knowing its seaworthiness.
Or do you mean the vessel that people make up themselves by adding all sorts of design detaills not provided in genesis, in order to show that the vessel described in genesis was seaworthy and up to the task?
So, they design a boat to float ( and I reemphasise it is not the boat described in genesis): now, how does that make the story any more true?

 

[Sherman Bay]

Job 26:
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hang Earth the earth upon nothing.

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth....ends of ts

Even people today use non literal expressions such as "the ends of the earth." It's just an idiomatic expression just like "he is all ears" "I have a green thumb" They felt blue"

Or like the non-literal story of a universal flood?

How does one tell the difference? Why is "4 corners of the earth" intended to be metaphorical, but "he put all the animals in an ark" literal? Why couldn't it be the reverse?

 

[Marduk]

I really wish to particippart but this computer is driving me bananas. I just went to a place seeking advice and they said I might have scroll lock on. I fiddled with the scroll lock and now it seems to be working OK. Hopefully it will remain this way.

Satan did it

 

[Radrook]

Or like the non-literal story of a universal flood?

How does one tell the difference? Why is "4 corners of the earth" intended to be metaphorical, but "he put all the animals in an ark" literal? Why couldn't it be the reverse?

When the Bible uses figurative language it's done through intense poetic diction, visions, dreams and parables. In contrast the historical books of are straightforward narratives. Furthermore, Jesus referred to Adam, Noah and the flood as real historiucal events with such phrases as "in the days of Noah"
"just as in Noah's day" "In the begining" referring to the first nan and woman. All the biblical writers treat the accounts as factual as well.

King James Bible
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,