Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fiona]

Try to explain how the text message could be discussed in the interrogation without implicitly referring to the person that sent the message.

The person who sent the message was Amanda

The Kerchers put themselves in this controversy when they gave negative testimony about Amanda. They don't get a one way ticket. Maybe it would be easier to see them as simply victims if they didn't have several million reasons to want to find Amanda and Raffaele guilty instead of just Rudy.

I see I was wrong about the long standing posters. I withdraw my comment and apologise to the rest of you, unreservedly

 

[Fulcanelli]

Try to explain how the text message could be discussed in the interrogation without implicitly referring to the person that sent the message.

But the police didn't and that's the point. All Amanda needed to have said was it was her boss telling her she needn't come into work and she texted back to say okay. Instead, when they showed her the message and asked her what it was all about, she started screaming and hitting herself in the head. How foolish of them to think there was something up with that!

The Kerchers put themselves in this controversy when they gave negative testimony about Amanda. They don't get a one way ticket. Maybe it would be easier to see them as simply victims if they didn't have several million reasons to want to find Amanda and Raffaele guilty instead of just Rudy.

What "negative testimony" was this Dan O?

 

[Dan O.]

Thank you for your efforts in organizing the translation project. I look forward to reading it.

If anybody is to be credited for organizing the translation it should be Michael at PMF. As far as we know, Flucanelli doesn't even post there.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I know because the photos were never presented in court.

Gravity would hold the glass on the ledge. As far as I know, gravity does not cause objects to jump up and fly away.

And a great big oaf climbing over the glass, what would that do to it?

And the issue is not only that it hasn't fallen to the ground, but also that it's all neatly arranged along the edge of the ledge...undisturbed. Nobody disturbed that glass because nobody climbed up onto the ledge or in through the window.

 

[Fulcanelli]

If anybody is to be credited for organizing the translation it should be Michael at PMF. As far as we know, Flucanelli doesn't even post there.

You've got a typo there Dan O.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Try to explain how the text message could be discussed in the interrogation without implicitly referring to the person that sent the message.





What's the point in showing a picture of something that you already accept was there. Will the picture change your mind about the break in? Will the picture change your opinion about Massei or the prosecution? If seeing a picture of a stick won't make any difference, why do you keep asking for it?





The Kerchers put themselves in this controversy when they gave negative testimony about Amanda. They don't get a one way ticket. Maybe it would be easier to see them as simply victims if they didn't have several million reasons to want to find Amanda and Raffaele guilty instead of just Rudy.

Dan, I honestly think you need to rethink you reasoning on your last point. Please put yourself in their shoes. Their daughter was brutally murdered. They hired an attorney and let the attorney handle things. They did not attend the trial. They came in for the verdict. They have enough pain to deal with. I can't imagine how painful it would have been for them to sit through that trial. Their attorney was present and he filled them in on the progress. The civil trial is a normal process that occurs in Italy. You are basically filing a civil suit against anyone that is found guilty. The Kerchers were simply following the advice from their attorney and their attorney was following the guidelines of the Italian judicial system.

Their attorney is a different story. He is a money hungry sorry excuse for a human being. That is my opinion of course. Any anger that you have should be directed at the attorney, not the Kercher family.

 

[Fulcanelli]

That is where you keep making the mistake. Rudy could reach the latch. Look at the measurements. Rudy stood on the top row of the bars and he opened the latch with his hand. Then he opened the window and pulled himself into the room.

This is not complicated. This is an online argument. The court has already agreed on this matter.

You cannot reach the latch from the bars.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

And a great big oaf climbing over the glass, what would that do to it?

And the issue is not only that it hasn't fallen to the ground, but also that it's all neatly arranged along the edge of the ledge...undisturbed. Nobody disturbed that glass because nobody climbed up onto the ledge or in through the window.

Guede is honestly not a big guy. What would Guede pulling himself into the room do to the glass? It would push the glass toward the room.

Remember, Guede's hands are inside the window, he pulls his body toward the room dragging himself through the window.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Dan, I honestly think you need to rethink you reasoning on your last point. Please put yourself in their shoes.

Thank you Bruce.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

You cannot reach the latch from the bars.

You are incorrect.

Measure the distance from the bars to the latch. Put Guede on his toes on the top row of the bars. He can reach the latch.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Guede is honestly not a big guy. What would Guede pulling himself into the room do to the glass? It would push the glass toward the room.

Remember, Guede's hands are inside the window, he pulls his body toward the room dragging himself through the window.

Not a big guy...all the harder to reach the latch then.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You are incorrect.

Measure the distance from the bars to the latch. Put Guede on his toes on the top row of the bars. He can reach the latch.

It's not a straight line Bruce...he has to bend his arms in through the window 'over' the ledge and through into the window, then bend them round into the left hand side and then up to the latch and then manipulate the latch...all while standing down on the bars. It doesn't work.

 

[stilicho]

Dan, I honestly think you need to rethink you reasoning on your last point. Please put yourself in their shoes. Their daughter was brutally murdered. They hired an attorney and let the attorney handle things.

Are you suggesting that once a client hires an attorney that they cease to have any control over their affairs? Please provide evidence that this is the case.

Dan O is correct in one thing: If the Kerchers are only in it for the money then a lawyer would be retained for that purpose. Someone might correct me but I had thought Maresca was retained because of his expertise in criminal law and his fluency in English.

If either of you have evidence that he is an "ambulance chaser" then you must provide it. Otherwise each of you owe a world of apology to the Kercher family for this vile innuendo.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Not a big guy...all the harder to reach the latch then.

You called him a "great big oaf"

I was simply responding to that.

If you look at the measurements like I said, putting Guede on his toes on the top row of the bars, he can reach the latch with his hand. He opened the window and he dragged himself in.

Keep in mind, His hand would be facing him, He would put his hand through the opening made by the broken glass and he would reach under and up to open the latch. Stand up and make this motion with your hand. You will see that when you approach the latch from the bottom, there is plenty of room to put your arm through the opening without disturbing the remaining glass.


This is why I have always wondered why this is argued about so much online. It isn't complicated at all.

I will wait and see how Kermit manipulated the measurements in his powerpoint. Maybe he will surprise me and admit that he discovered that the climb isn't that hard to explain.

 

[capealadin]

Well done, Bruce, re: Dan o's comments

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Are you suggesting that once a client hires an attorney that they cease to have any control over their affairs? Please provide evidence that this is the case.

Dan O is correct in one thing: If the Kerchers are only in it for the money then a lawyer would be retained for that purpose. Someone might correct me but I had thought Maresca was retained because of his expertise in criminal law and his fluency in English.

If either of you have evidence that he is an "ambulance chaser" then you must provide it. Otherwise each of you owe a world of apology to the Kercher family for this vile innuendo.

You are simply not worth talking to. You twist every comment made. I am finished with you.

I know plenty about the Kercher lawyer. I know that he was sitting with his buddy Mignini when Mignini was convicted. I have no reason to discuss him further. He has no bearing on this case. I was informing Dan that he was directing his anger at the wrong people.

Did I say that the Kerchers gave their attorney full power? No, what I said was, their attorney attended the trial and reported back to them.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

It's not a straight line Bruce...he has to bend his arms in through the window 'over' the ledge and through into the window, then bend them round into the left hand side and then up to the latch and then manipulate the latch...all while standing down on the bars. It doesn't work.

It works very easily actually. Your arm isn't a straight line. You have an elbow and a wrist. The ledge doesn't stick out enough to be any factor at all so you can eliminate that.

Try again, stand up, put your arm out in front of you with the palm of your hand facing you. Now, you put your hand through the opening in the glass with your palm still facing you. You move your hand up and slightly over to the latch and open it.

It is really isn't hard to do.

 

[stilicho]

If you look at the measurements like I said, putting Guede on his toes on the top row of the bars, he can reach the latch with his hand. He opened the window and he dragged himself in.

Naturally, you're missing several vital elements. He broke the window with the rock. Nobody heard this. He scaled the wall. Nobody saw this. He opened the latch while clinging with the other hand to a ledge scattered with broken glass. No evidence of contact with the broken glass. He lifted himself the rest of the way. No evidence on the outer surface of the wall. He crawled over the broken glass on the window ledge. No evidence of broken glass on the ground.

It isn't enough to say that it could be done this way. The evidence must fit the scenario you are proposing. It doesnt, so you need to abandon your hypothesis.

 

[Moss]

Bruce, for the sake of being able to compare, would you mind putting up what measurements you've got?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

It's not a straight line Bruce...he has to bend his arms in through the window 'over' the ledge and through into the window, then bend them round into the left hand side and then up to the latch and then manipulate the latch...all while standing down on the bars. It doesn't work.

I think you are also imagining his shoulder line to be far below the ledge. His shoulders would have been just above the ledge, His armpit would be able to rest on the ledge.

For his armpits to be at that level, Rudy would be on his tip toes on the top bar. Standing on his tip toes on that bar would add a considerable amount of reach.

I have studied this wall. The climb was easy for Guede.