Noah's Ark found?

[I Am The Scum]

And the 8 guys available did all the finding, gathering, cutting, assembling,
Lordy, they didn't get much sleep.. and STILL had to collect all those animules.

As someone with a little bit of experience in woodworking, I cringe at the thought of the very first step: milling the boards. Imagine having to do all of that without a bandsaw. Yikes.

Oh, and he did it in seven days.

 

[Simon39759]

IIRC, the D & D spell table has purify water as a first or second level cleric spell. With Noah's ability to speak to God, odds are he's an adventurer cleric of at least third level, so he's got that sorted.

Dude; it's a 0 level spell. Noah would just have needed to be first level.
The problem, however, is that it just treat one cubic feet per level.
So, now, we just need to calculate how many cubic feet is needed per day to provide for a couple of all 2 million living species on earth and that'd give us an idea of Noah's minimum level.
Although, he could always had prepared the same spell several time, I suppose. Or wrote scrolls ahead of time...

 

[Darth Rotor]

If any of these biblical literalists really want to prove something about the "truth" of this story, they'd make a scaled-down model of the ark, stock it with mere hundreds of predator and prey animals from around the planet, along with whatever food and water they think they'd need, and then see if they could last a year in the open sea.

Nitpicky time.

A year? About seven months before the ark landed on Ararat, per the narrative,

"And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. "

But of course, by then the plumbing was all backed up, so it took a while longer to drain ... but "a year on the open sea" it wasn't. (I just thought of what the plumbers charged to unstop the Fountains of the Deep. Ouch, that'd cost a few dinari or shekels or whatever went for coin in the day ... wait a minute, all the plumbers were dead, no wonder it took so long to drain! )

As to poop, that would be the least of anybody's worries. It goes over the side, or is pumped out of the bilges, in the usual fashion at sea ... messy, messy, messy. But it's not the problem packing food is ... for a floating zoo.

In reality, not one of them could keep two cows alive for a month.

I'll bet with you on that one.

FWIW: the Spaniards who crossed the Atlantic in the sixteenth century kept horses alive for considerably longer than a month. But they also lost some, in the Horse Latitudes, or so I hear.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Presuming the planks used for the construction were a tad longer than 60 feet each, and 1 foot wide...
2 sides... 5063 planks. 450'x45'
bottom ... 4218 planks. 450'x75'
3 decks... 12656 planks .450'x75'
21937 planks.
.
8 planks in line for the stem to stern dimension.
75 across for the bottom and 3 decks.
45 up for the sides.
And all the seams on the bottom and sides would have to be caulked, the decks not so much, but there is that ton of water every hour hitting the upper deck..
.
And the 8 guys available did all the finding, gathering, cutting, assembling,
Lordy, they didn't get much sleep.. and STILL had to collect all those animules.

He subcontracted it all out to Ark Depot: remember, this is before everybody was drowned. Of course, once back, Noah and the boys didn't want to give anyone else credit, (and who was gonna know?) so on their next ship building bid, they took credit for all of the work so that they'd win the contract! (Huh, how would I know anything like this, after a few short years dealing with DoD acquisition ...)

DR

 

[steve s]

Why does that matter? In the timeline, Christ comes well after the Flood, and embodies a different phase of the relationship between God and Man.

DR

So much for the bible being the eternal and unchanging truth. It changes and adapts to the intellectual and technological sophistication of whoever god happens to be talking to at the time. It's time for it to adapt to the fact that we now know that the earth isn't 6000 years old and that life has been evolving on this planet for the past 3.5 billion years.

Steve S.

 

[Darth Rotor]

So much for the bible being the eternal and unchanging truth. It changes and adapts to the intellectual and technological sophistication of whoever god happens to be talking to at the time.

Technology had nothing to do with the series of covenants described in the Old Testament. That is what my use of "new phase" was referring to, since kedo had juxtaposed elements of the Second Covenant with the last Covenant.

As one of the teenagers in bible study put it a few years ago ...

The First Covenant allowed for the possibility of sin (Adam and Eve), and the Last Covenant (Jesus Christ) made possible the redemption of sin.

If you don't care for the theology, fine. It's not everybody's cup of tea.

DR

 

[tsig]

He, the author, said that I didn't.

So you don't agree with it?

 

[Michael Redman]

Dude; it's a 0 level spell. Noah would just have needed to be first level.
The problem, however, is that it just treat one cubic feet per level.
So, now, we just need to calculate how many cubic feet is needed per day to provide for a couple of all 2 million living species on earth and that'd give us an idea of Noah's minimum level.
Although, he could always had prepared the same spell several time, I suppose. Or wrote scrolls ahead of time...

The guy linked to above who is selling his book "proving" the ark was feasible, claims that the animals would generate 12 metric tons of waste a day. I think it's reasonable to assume an animal would need to drink more weight in water than the weight of their waste (considering the weight of their food and the weight of respirated water). 12 metric tons of water is 423 cubic feet of water, if my math is right.

Assuming no magical purification, imagine the added stress on the boat of having more than 150,000 cubic feet of water sloshing around at the beginning of the trip.

Imagine how much work it would be gathering 4500 tons of water and getting it into the ship.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Noah, Joan's husband. Just kidding. You, know, Joan of Arc? Nevermind.

Noah's Ark is real because it is written in Joesph Smith's golden book. Just kidding again.

 

[tsig]

Um, Noah and his offspring were already infected??

Of course the animals all had their species specific diseases.

With a sick crew and a boatload of sick animals it's a miracle that not a single one died.

 

[Michael Redman]

We don't need to account for disease. Disease was caused by demons until scientists invented germ theory.

 

[Bill Thompson]

I wrote a blog once showing all the problems with the Noah's Ark story.

Friends said that it made them sad and that they "wanted to believe"

I found it odd that "want" influences "belief".

 

[tsig]

I'm referring to going to a website. Reading one of the counterarguments and then attempting a rebuttal. THat's far more interesting than having to read the "HA! H! HA! they are wrong!" comments which require no deep thought whatsoever.

From your website:

I first considered large carnivores (e.g., lions), demonstrating that a large quantity of fodder animals were unnecessary to supply meat for them. I then considered the animals that eat only live foods, such as the insectivorous bats and soft-billed birds, showing that they could have been maintained without extensive culturing of live insects on the Ark. Next were considered animals with the most highly specialized diets, proving that Noah did not need to grow Eucalyptus on the Ark for the koalas, nor bamboo for the pandas aboard. I also showed how the dietary needs of vampire bats, king cobras, certain highly-folivorous primates, and three-toed sloths could have been met on the Ark.



There's nothing to refute. It's and ad for a book.


If you have any arguments bring them here weblinks and vague references are not an argument.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Dude; it's a 0 level spell. Noah would just have needed to be first level.
The problem, however, is that it just treat one cubic feet per level.
So, now, we just need to calculate how many cubic feet is needed per day to provide for a couple of all 2 million living species on earth and that'd give us an idea of Noah's minimum level.
Although, he could always had prepared the same spell several time, I suppose. Or wrote scrolls ahead of time...

Oh dear, that's right. Wasn't thinking v3.5, was thinking *cough* original three books back in nineteen seventy something or other *cough*!)

DR

 

[tsig]

No one here, including me, wants me to quote the dozens of posts of pure vitriol toward me.

It does no good and serves no purpose.

If you so want to know, may I suggest you search.

Otherwise, drop it.

I have never seen those posts so I suggest you prove your accusation or withdraw It.

 

[kerikiwi]

You know what I'm really looking for? I'm looking for detailed relevant responses to the explanations provided for the livability of the ark. You know, like the ventilation solution. Anyone want to refute the solution that was provided? Now that would be interesting to read and not this constant monotonous prmieval mindleess and endless chanting.



Noah's Ark Feasabilty Study
http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=402

Here's a response that is adequately detailed and relevant.
The 'Feasability Study' is bollocks.
16,000 animals? Dinosaurs?
Primeval mindless endless chanting? I suppose a fair description of belief in the ark story.

 

[Darth Rotor]

The guy linked to above who is selling his book "proving" the ark was feasible, claims that the animals would generate 12 metric tons of waste a day. I think it's reasonable to assume an animal would need to drink more weight in water than the weight of their waste (considering the weight of their food and the weight of respirated water). 12 metric tons of water is 423 cubic feet of water, if my math is right.

Assuming no magical purification, imagine the added stress on the boat of having more than 150,000 cubic feet of water sloshing around at the beginning of the trip.

Imagine how much work it would be gathering 4500 tons of water and getting it into the ship.

In a ship, on the ocean? Not that hard, the water's there, but flowing that much water through the ark, over a 24 hour period, and running it through the evaps, or the cleric with his staff working over time ... another engineering problem in the non-trivial category.

You are running just under 2000 tons of water, if the back of the napkin math is correct, per hour, through a ship that displaces ... crap, what's the displacement of the ark? 4-6000 tons? I forget.

DR

 

[kerikiwi]

I never once said that the two ships were the same material. Actually, neither did the author of the article.

I know. Nobody accused you of saying that. It was simply pointed out as a fact.

 

[kerikiwi]

No one here, including me, wants me to quote the dozens of posts of pure vitriol toward me.

It does no good and serves no purpose.

If you so want to know, may I suggest you search.

Otherwise, drop it.

I only asked for one or two examples.
It does me good and serves my purpose.
No. You made the claim. You provide the evidence: rather like the ark, actually.
No

 

[I Ratant]

Of course the animals all had their species specific diseases.

With a sick crew and a boatload of sick animals it's a miracle that not a single one died.

.
Brace yourself...
I have bad news!
The female unicorn died on the boat.
Made for a change from the usual ship's food, but...