Continuation - The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

[William Parcher]

So you're saying the footage with this white pack horse was filmed in WA?

Yes...

Bob Heironimus told you that there was no packhorse at Bluff Creek when he went there to be filmed. Did he specifically tell you that the only horses there were Chico and Peanuts? Please ask him to confirm or deny the following:

1. He is sitting on his own horse Chico in the actors line-up pic as well as the downhill incline riding clip.

2. Patterson is sitting on Peanuts in the actors line-up pic.

Then please ask about this scene. Are we looking at Patterson riding Peanuts pulling a white packhorse at Bluff Creek? If not, can he describe the scene?

Then please ask about this scene. Are we looking at Gimlin riding Chico pulling a white packhorse at Bluff Creek? If not, can he describe the scene?

KKZ, Bob told you that there was no packhorse at Bluff Creek when he went there. Do not then assume that any footage showing a packhorse cannot have be taken at Bluff Creek. P&G were at Bluff Creek on more occasions than when BH says he came to be filmed. If BH is accurate, then I was wrong about something. I thought we have a scene of BG riding Chico at Bluff Creek pulling a packhorse (see above).

 

[SweatyYeti]

One hot, lazy summer afternoon.....Phil Morris returned from the kitchen with a freshly made ice-cold tea, to relax in his favorite recliner......when, as he flipped through the channels.....enjoying a nice, loooong sip of his ice-cold tea....he suddenly blurted out, amidst a spray of freshly made ice-cold tea....."Mabel, quick, come look!!....it's MY suit...on tv!!!...I'd know it anywhere!!"...

 

[Drewbot]

Wow. almost every 'muscle' and seam are in the exact spot.
The face is close, the hands look good. It really isn't that far off.

 

[DennyT]

Wow. almost every 'muscle' and seam are in the exact spot.
The face is close, the hands look good. It really isn't that far off.

In the spirit of the James Randi Foundation, I am tempted to offer a one million dollar prize for anyone who can convincingly demonstrate the normal contraction (nb: not the apparent effect) of any well-defined, visible mass aka "muscle" seen in/on the subject of the PG movie.

Of course I don't have a million dollars, but I would buy the winner a decent bottle of Scotch. Anyone who thinks he can do it, had better bone up on anatomy and physiology before making their presentation.

 

[The Shrike]

The face is close, the hands look good. It really isn't that far off.

I actually thought the same thing - especially the hands. Check out the calf musculature too.

So exactly what is it that the 'footers think makes the reproduction on the right such a poor match for "Patty?" Can they really not get their minds past the color difference?

 

[Drewbot]

Of course I don't have a million dollars, but I would buy the winner a decent bottle of Scotch. Anyone who thinks he can do it, had better bone up on anatomy and physiology before making their presentation.

Any claim to muscle movement whether it is correct or incorrect could be summarily dismissed by you as a feature of a padded costume, with a follow up by you of 'show that it is muscle movement'. But I'll take the bottle of Scotch.

 

[DennyT]

Any claim to muscle movement whether it is correct or incorrect could be summarily dismissed by you as a feature of a padded costume, with a follow up by you of 'show that it is muscle movement'. But I'll take the bottle of Scotch.

I guess this means I won't be collecting any entry fees, right? but take note, any who have an interest, I don't say "movement."

 

[kitakaze]

KKZ, Bob told you that there was no packhorse at Bluff Creek when he went there. Do not then assume that any footage showing a packhorse cannot have be taken at Bluff Creek. P&G were at Bluff Creek on more occasions than when BH says he came to be filmed. If BH is accurate, then I was wrong about something. I thought we have a scene of BG riding Chico at Bluff Creek pulling a packhorse (see above).

You are correct, WP, and thanks for the help. I'll call BH back today and ask him what he remembers.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

I'll bet you money it was someone in the porn industry that actually processed the film. P&G were afraid of the taint having an underground porn producer processing the film would put on their efforts so they fudged the details to try and cover that part up.

The porn thing is commonly used as a bigfoot band-aid to explain how Patterson got the film developed on weekend. Thing is, they'd have no need to rush the film's development if they shot the film before the alleged filming date (as suggested by the timeline issues) and could use any legit developer. But they would still want to keep this under wraps, as any revelation that the film was developed prior to the claimed shooting date would kill the film.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Wow. almost every 'muscle' and seam are in the exact spot.

Don't forget, that image comes from a promotional poster that seemed to shown signs of "airbrushing" or "smoothing" of some kind. Only images from the recreation attempt (or a second go-round with the suit) should be used to compare details on Patty with.

Oh, and you have an e-mail kit...

 

[kitakaze]

Oh, and you have an e-mail kit...

Ding dong.

BTW, here's something Philip Morris said to me...

He asked me to consider why Patterson hadn't just taken his 16mm film he just took of Bigfoot to a nearby television studio for processing. He said that back in those days most major tv studios that did news coverage had to have their own processing rigs for 16mm. I thought it seemed a interesting, but it didn't quite make sense to me.

 

[Óðinn]

One hot, lazy summer afternoon.....Phil Morris returned from the kitchen with a freshly made ice-cold tea, to relax in his favorite recliner......when, as he flipped through the channels.....enjoying a nice, loooong sip of his ice-cold tea....he suddenly blurted out, amidst a spray of freshly made ice-cold tea....."Mabel, quick, come look!!....it's MY suit...on tv!!!...I'd know it anywhere!!"...


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty%20and%20Bob%20Two/PattyBobtheFurballComp1.jpg[/qimg]

For those unaware, that photo of Bob in the Morris suit has been modified to the hilt. The body was widened, definition added, photoshopped over a fake background, feet missing, etc. It's a highly doctored promotional graphic for Nat Geo. Kinda like airbrushing cover models.

That said, Morris supposedly did recognize "his" suit in the PGF. But he never made a bigfoot suit in 67, so he must have thought he saw one of his gorilla suits..that someone modified into a bigfoot suit. So what part of the suit did he recognize? Not the head, not the t & a, not the legs, not the feet...which part(s)?

ETA: What AMM said.

 

[Blackdog]

The tag?

 

[JcR]

Wah Chang jumped out of his chair when he seen the head...

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Well, you know he will have one of his original ape suits from the 60s in there, the old bait and switch, but this page is also very good for showing how he is totally capitalizing on this whole "Bigfoot kookery" thing.

Oh, I'm sure it won't be the original and he'll have some lame excuse for having such a claim on his site. I suspect any of his old ape suits would have long since deteriorated into an unusable/unrecognizable state by now. If he did manage to have an actual surviving suit from the time, it would contradict his claim of not having one and needing to make the recreation suit from different materials.

I just remembered that in one of Mark Chorvinsky's article on the alleged Chambers/Patterson connection, it was mentioned that Chambers had asked someone in the industry (Landis?) to stop saying he was involved in the PGF. It was either this one or this one. This is further proof of Chambers denying his involvement/trying to quash such rumors to people in the industry. Again, this was before the Short interview.

One of those articles notes that at least one person in the industry gave support to the rumor due to his feeling that Patty's body resembled a fursuit from "Lost in Space" (a show that John Chambers had some connections with). I seem to recall someone poo-pooing Chambers' alleged involvement due to his schedule not being free due to the shooting time. This shows that not everyone in the industry believed it and how those that did believe didn't feel that the suit was realistic.

These, and possibly the alleged statement that Chambers enjoyed that the film was shot at a place named "Bluff" Creek that I linked to much earlier in this discussion, all point to Chambers denying involvement and not being impressed with the suit. So why did he say otherwise to Bobbie Short?

In an unrelated note, this has some interesting tidbits on the NASI report. The next page is also worth a read.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

A blast from the past:

On page 37, Chapter 5 of How to Operate a Financially Successful Haunted House by Philip Morris and Dennis Phillips. (1997 Morris Costumes. ISBN: 0-911137-11-4. Library of Congress # 87-80906), it is written:

"A lot of publicity stunts will be covered by the press and electronic media. One of the authors of this book pulled a classic stunt to promote the opening of his new costume shop. It went like this: A friend of his from his old circus days called and told him he would be through his area in a few hours to talk and visit. The fellow happened to be an elephant trainer, and always traveled with a few bulls (elephants). So the wheels of publicity began to turn and an idea emerged in the author's head. He called the local newspaper and radio station and explained that he was the owner of the local costume company and they had just received a contract to manufacture some elephant costumes and blankets and the big international circus star and all of his elephants would be arriving shortly. What followed is a classic funny story. In comes a motor home and tractor trailer and the two old friend meet with TV camera cranking out film and newspapers grabbing pictures. The elephant trainer had no idea what was happening! He soon caught on and went along with the stunt. He unloaded an elephant in the parking lot and they began to take measurements and put on a big show. When they went to move the truck, the trainer was having problems starting the engine, so the elephants were brought around to "give a push!" This story and the pictures dominated the 6 o' clock news and feature page for the next day, It didn't cost the author a penny! This is a fine example of using your imagination and exploiting all the possibilities."

 

[Óðinn]

The tag?

Price tag or washing instructions?

 

[DennyT]

A blast from the past:

On page 37, Chapter 5 of How to Operate a Financially Successful Haunted House by Philip Morris and Dennis Phillips. (1997 Morris Costumes. ISBN: 0-911137-11-4. Library of Congress # 87-80906), it is written:

"A lot of publicity stunts will be covered by the press and electronic media. One of the authors of this book pulled a classic stunt to promote the opening of his new costume shop. It went like this: A friend of his from his old circus days called and told him he would be through his area in a few hours to talk and visit. The fellow happened to be an elephant trainer, and always traveled with a few bulls (elephants). So the wheels of publicity began to turn and an idea emerged in the author's head. He called the local newspaper and radio station and explained that he was the owner of the local costume company and they had just received a contract to manufacture some elephant costumes and blankets and the big international circus star and all of his elephants would be arriving shortly. What followed is a classic funny story. In comes a motor home and tractor trailer and the two old friend meet with TV camera cranking out film and newspapers grabbing pictures. The elephant trainer had no idea what was happening! He soon caught on and went along with the stunt. He unloaded an elephant in the parking lot and they began to take measurements and put on a big show. When they went to move the truck, the trainer was having problems starting the engine, so the elephants were brought around to "give a push!" This story and the pictures dominated the 6 o' clock news and feature page for the next day, It didn't cost the author a penny! This is a fine example of using your imagination and exploiting all the possibilities."

So I guess "the author" didn't go to the papers and tv stations about the gorilla/Bigfoot costume, now did he? Certainly had the opportunity for the first oh, 36 years. Instead, he finally talks to a minor journalist and makes it into an add on chapter in a book that sells badly. Nice try.

 

[DennyT]

Abraham Zapruder tried to get his super 8 Kodachrome developed 4 years earlier in Dallas at TV stations. Fail. x 2 TV stations. One was WFAA, which I believe was the Dallas Morning News station. Finally took it to the Dallas Kodak Plant. YOU COULDN'T GET 16mm (or Super8, basically same developing thing) KODACHROME II DEVELOPED OUTSIDE OF REGIONAL KODAK PLANTS. Sorry to shout , but you really should read the book by Greg Short, no...no...Greg Long, yeah, that's it. Greg Long. ha-ha.
Seriously, Long was right. Complex, costly, and patented procedure. I have seen some postings that suggest because a local drugstore advertised "we develop Kodachrome film," it meant that, say, any Rexall Pharmacy could actually process it. I mean, does your corner dry cleaner really do the dry cleaning? yet they advertise that they do. hmm? Drugstores and camera shops shipped to regional Kodak plants, just like your dry cleaner ships your suits to a dry cleaning plant. Of course the dry cleaning plant is usually in the same city. Unlike the Kodak plants. Zapruder was just lucky there was one in Dallas.
Another fallacy from the footers: that some lab would bootleg the process; yeah, that's a good thing to do, mess with Kodak and you go out of business. There were no leftover chemicals; other labs never had the process at that time. And why would a private business man jeopardize his livelihood to accommodate Al DeAtley, who really wasn't in that big a hurry anyway. "Footers think it must have been so urgent that people were flying it out of the two bit airports at nine oclock at night, getting rush developing, opening plants on the weekends. Baloney. There was no deadline, remember that. it was just Roger and Bob hangin out down at Louse Creek, riding Peanuts and Chico around every day, waiting for the go ahead from Al, so they could trumpet it to the world. They had no jobs to go back to, and they weren't on salary, at least we know Bob Gimlin wasn't. and Patterson was living off Gimlin, so no problemo if it took another week to process and edit the film.

 

[Blackdog]

Price tag or washing instructions?

Hand wash in creek water or bloody pool only.
Wash and wear.