Moderated Iron sun with Aether batteries...

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Standard solar theory cannot and never will explain that image. SDO will definitely rewrite solar history.
Standard solar theory can and has explained that image.
SDO will definitely produce new results that will continue to debunk your fantasy:
Micheal Mozina's iron crust has been debunked!
The fact that it fails many other observations (an iron crust at a temperature of > 9400 K :jaw-dropp ) and predicts absolutley nothing just makes it a joke. See the over 50 questions that Michael Mozina is incapable of answering.
 
At the limb, your line of sight is nearly tangent to the sun's surface. Among other things, that means each pixel on or near the limb represents a much larger area of the sun's surface than pixels nearer the center of the image.

Ok Mr Spock, give us a number per pixel. :)

Each pixel at the extreme edge covers about 60 times the area covered by a pixel at the center.

Ok Mr. Spock, (FYI, I personally love Spock.) I've looked at the images again carefully and although I personally see no signs of more than perhaps a single pixel of distortion due to the jpg compression, I'll give you two pixels in each direction, both at the limb line and at the photosphere/chromosphere boundary (which looks pretty darn smooth as far as I can tell).
As we have seen, what you personally can see is irrelevant.

The factor-of-60 distortion has nothing to do with JPEG compression. The factor of 60 results from projecting a 3-dimensional sphere onto a 2-dimensional image.

Consider the equations for a sphere of radius 2000 pixel widths, centered at the origin, observed by a camera situated along the z-axis at infinity:

[latex]
\begin{eqnarray}
x^2 + y^2 + z^2 & = & 2000^2 \\
z(x, y) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - x^2 - y^2} \\
z(0,0) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - 0^2 - 0^2} = 2000 \\
z(1,0) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - 1^2 - 0^2} \doteq 1999.99975 \\
z(0,1) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - 0^2 - 1^2} \doteq 1999.99975 \\
z(1,1) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - 1^2 - 1^2} \doteq 1999.9995 \\
z(1999,0) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - 1999^2 - 0^2} \doteq 63.24 \\
z(2000,0) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - 2000^2 - 0^2} = 0 \\
z(1999,1) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - 1999^2 - 1^2} \doteq 63.23 \\
z(1999.99974, 1) & = & \sqrt{2000^2 - 1999.99974^2 - 1^2} \doteq 0.2
\end{eqnarray}
[/latex]

Near the center (where x and y are both near 0), the value of z is almost the same at every corner of the pixel, so the area of the sphere covered by a central pixel is almost exactly 1 (in units of square pixels).

At the limb (where x is near 2000), the value of z varies by more than 63, so the area of the sphere covered by a pixel at the limb is more than 63 (in units of square pixels).

The above is analytic geometry, as taught in high school. To have any hope of interpreting the limb of a solar image, you're going to have to understand it.
:bunnyface
 
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I see the same method here as in all your other explanations. You assume that you can see right through the photosphere, proclaim triumphantly that you can see right through the photosphere, and then demand to know why the standard model can't explain how you can see right through the photosphere.

I know you're kind of new to the whole solar theory debate, but this image is gold. It's not like previous images of the sun with highly limited resolution. SOHO and TRACE had 1 megapixel images to work with, and STEREO has 4. Even in STEREO images there would only be about two pixels between my theory and their theory. In this resolution however, and due to the depth of the silicon layer, it's closer to 20 pixels at the limb. That kind of resolution upgrade is a "game changer' in terms of satellite imagery. It's also "real time" which I completely envy. The guys at LMSAL and/or NASA can watch the real time movies while we mere mortals get by on a few crumbs. :)

Let me explain the importance of this specific image for you and so that you understand why I posted it. That orange outer light comes from the chromosphere. We can see the transition between the chromosphere and the photosphere appear as a smooth line on the inside of the orange emissions. There is a significant density change between the photosphere and chromosphere and that smooth inside boundary denotes the photosphere/chromosphere boundary.

According to standard theory, no iron ion light should radiate from below that point. There should be no "light green" region between that smooth inner surface and the limb darkening we observe 20 or so pixels into the image. According to standard theory, the photosphere should be "opaque" to those wavelengths in *METERS*, not kilometers, but meters. Those wavelengths should ionize elements in the photosphere and we should see no light from the iron ion wavelengths beyond perhaps the first 3 pixels (even if we assume no ionization at all) or so from that photosphere/chromosphere boundary according to their 500KM opacity math bunny. Instead what we see are 20 pixels of math bunny disaster. :)

There simply is no physical way on Earth or in this universe to explain that image with the standard solar model or *ANY* solar model that doesn't include a *HIGHLY* (Ne+4 or better energy state) ionized atmosphere.

This issue doesn't simply support Birkeland's solar model, it absolutely destroys any non-electric solar model.
 
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This issue doesn't simply support Birkeland's solar model, it absolutely destroys any non-electric solar model.


Birkeland never suggested that the Sun has a solid iron surface. Your implication that he did is a lie.

ETA: Oh, and do you suppose LMSAL has taken you off their spam blocking list? You might want to email them, again, and tell them that everyone who works their is clueless and that you have destroyed mainstream solar physics. I'm sure they'll be pleased to know. Let us know how that turns out, will you?
 
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I will have to change it based on the image. It looks to be closer to 10,000KM than to 4800KM as I presumed. Frankly I'm absolutely stunned (and thrilled) at how many pixels there are between the surface and the photosphere. I was hoping for 8 or 9 pixels, not 20.


So you are now claiming that there is a solid iron surface on the Sun at approximately .986R. That is about 10,000 kilometers deep, about three times deeper than you've been claiming for the past five plus years. Come on, Michael, you can do it. You can admit that you've been wrong all this time, by a factor of three! :eek:
 
I know you're kind of new to the whole solar theory debate, but this image is gold. It's not like previous images of the sun with highly limited resolution. SOHO and TRACE had 1 megapixel images to work with, and STEREO has 4. Even in STEREO images there would only be about two pixels between my theory and their theory. In this resolution however, and due to the depth of the silicon layer, it's closer to 20 pixels at the limb. That kind of resolution upgrade is a "game changer' in terms of satellite imagery. It's also "real time" which I completely envy. The guys at LMSAL and/or NASA can watch the real time movies while we mere mortals get by on a few crumbs. :)

Let me explain the importance of this specific image for you and so that you understand why I posted it. That orange outer light comes from the chromosphere. We can see the transition between the chromosphere and the photosphere appear as a smooth line on the inside of the orange emissions. There is a significant density change between the photosphere and chromosphere and that smooth inside boundary denotes the photosphere/chromosphere boundary.

According to standard theory, no iron ion light should radiate from below that point. There should be no "light green" region between that smooth inner surface and the limb darkening we observe 20 or so pixels into the image. According to standard theory, the photosphere should be "opaque" to those wavelengths in *METERS*, not kilometers, but meters. Those wavelengths should ionize elements in the photosphere and we should see no light from the iron ion wavelengths beyond perhaps the first 3 pixels (even if we assume no ionization at all) or so from that photosphere/chromosphere boundary according to their 500KM opacity math bunny. Instead what we see are 20 pixels of math bunny disaster. :)

There simply is no physical way on Earth or in this universe to explain that image with the standard solar model or *ANY* solar model that doesn't include a *HIGHLY* (Ne+4 or better energy state) ionized atmosphere.

This issue doesn't simply support Birkeland's solar model, it absolutely destroys any non-electric solar model.

Write it up. Publish it. Collect Nobel. Why are you wasting your time here?
 
So you are now claiming that there is a solid iron surface on the Sun at approximately .986R. That is about 10,000 kilometers deep, about three times deeper than you've been claiming for the past five plus years. Come on, Michael, you can do it. You can admit that you've been wrong all this time, by a factor of three! :eek:

My personal opinion was about 4800 - 6000 but I would have felt a wee bit uncomfortable at the 6000 point. I can see now it's at least 7200KM and depending on the mass flows, it probably is at least 8000KM. I'm off a bit, but not by a factor of three. Do you even know how to tell the truth or is outrageous distortion of my statements your only actual talent?
 
Wow! Yet another thread in which Michael Mozina proposes a model which violates several laws of thermodynamics, ignores most of what we know about electromagnetism, and declares victory by looking at a 2D picture and claiming to know all of its 3D structure.

Now that Michael has taught us how to do this amazing and cost-effective science, let's all try it!

full-20earth2.jpg


Look at 12:00. There's a green-brown structure extending almost 1/3rd of the way through the ocean. Obviously the ocean is very deep, but transparent, and we're looking at a 2000-km-tall inverted pyramid---or perhaps a current loop---which extends right to the surface. (What, you say? "That's all structure above the ocean", you say? Look at it, you morons! It's perpendicular to the ocean, you can see it!) That's not some mysterious floating "north america", it's obviously submerged in the transparent sphere. There's another one below it, that one is submerged on the top and elevated towards the bottom. Parallax makes it a little hard to see but I think it's 5000-6000km thick.

There's also a bright white "corona" around the edge of the whole thing. It can't be clouds, clouds are fluffy and this is a haze. It's obviously a corona emitting white light, probably excited states of Xenon or Thorium---excited by current flow---ever hear of lightning? And sometimes the corona goes under the ocean, see? It happens all over the image. You'd have to be blind not to see it.

And look at this one:
040502-Schwartz8Ball.jpg


Obviously the 8-ball is transparent---just look at the edge!---and therefore Randi's head and that 8-logo thing are hovering in the center. Maybe orbiting one another. The 8-logo is clearly IN FRONT of the Randi head. You'd have to be blind not to see it.
 
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My personal opinion was about 4800 - 6000 but I would have felt a wee bit uncomfortable at the 6000 point. I can see now it's at least 7200KM and depending on the mass flows, it probably is at least 8000KM. I'm off a bit, but not by a factor of three. Do you even know how to tell the truth or is outrageous distortion of my statements your only actual talent?


Hey, it's not my fault if you can't seem to lock in on any particular numbers. But let's get this straight. Your claim now is that there's a solid iron surface on the Sun somewhere between 7200 kilometers and 8000 kilometers down from the commonly accepted outer radius of about 695500 kilometers, or somewhere between .990R and .988R. Correct?
 
My personal opinion was about 4800 - 6000 but I would have felt a wee bit uncomfortable at the 6000 point. I can see now it's at least 7200KM and depending on the mass flows, it probably is at least 8000KM. I'm off a bit, but not by a factor of three.
What did you base your personal opinion on?
My guess is your guess at the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin :D.

My personal opinion is that your iron crust fantasy* is at 0.001R where the temperature is about 13,600,000 K.

Of course the most idiotic things about putting your iron crust fantasy even deeper are
  1. It makes your claims of being able to see it in any image even less possible (more impossible?). Even at 3000 km it is invisible since only 1 photon per 4 years can escape the Sun from it (assuming that your crust is as bright as the entire Sun :jaw-dropp!).
    At a depth of > 7200 km you would need a iron crust emitting more light than trillions? of Suns in order to get through the plasma above it.
  2. The deeper you go the higher the temperature.
    At 500 km your iron crust has already vaporized because the temperature is 9400 K.
  3. You are getting further into the convective zone where convection takes the vaporized remains of your iron crust and spread it around the interior of the Sun.
  4. I wonder what happens to the mass of the sun in your fantasy when you have > 7200 km of "mostly" Li/Be/B/C/N/O/Si plasma above the iron crust.
*A fanatsy because it violates thermodynamics, e.g see Micheal Mozina's iron crust has been debunked!
The fact that it fails many other observations (an iron crust at a temperature of > 9400 K :jaw-dropp ) and predicts absolutley nothing just makes it a joke. See the over 50 questions that Michael Mozina is incapable of answering.
 
Anyway, after all of the noise and yelling, MM is still breezily assuming that 171A light comes from deep under the photosphere---apparently 7000km, not 3000km, deep. As we've variously said, this is impossible in any plasma conditions anyone has ever actually proposed. MM promised to propose a new never-before-seen plasma condition under which he thinks it's not impossible. Making any progress on that, MM?
 
Doing some more numbers on the image ...

The Sun subtends an angle of ~0.009 radians.

The AIA has a resolution of ~1 arcsec (which is ~5 microrads), of which there are ~1800 in 0.009 rads.

The beautiful image is 4096 x 4096 pixels, so the AIA's PSF covers approx 2x2 pixels.

In this image, a pixel corresponds to ~360 km (normal to the line of sight).

The image is an RGB false-colour one, with R being 21.1nm, G 19.3nm, and B 17.1nm; the relative RGB values for "the thin green line"* might be interesting to table (I suspect they will vary quite a bit); all three are iron ion lines.

BTW, I don't think the point sources are stars ben m; even in the EUV, the Sun is still the brightest object in the sky, by far (barring possible transients).

* which is not continuous, nor of constant width

Thank you. I mean that.
 
I don't have a photoionization problem because this is an electric solar model, but you certainly have a *HUGE* problem.

You don't seem to have a model, Michael - or if you do, you're hiding it from me. If you had a model, you could tell me what kind of plasma the photosphere is composed of.
 
You don't seem to have a model, Michael - or if you do, you're hiding it from me. If you had a model, you could tell me what kind of plasma the photosphere is composed of.

I have told you sol. I believe it is mostly highly ionized neon with hydrogen and electrons running through it with oxygen and all the other solar wind items in it. All of them are *highly* ionized by the current flow from the surface crust to the heliosphere and through the neon photosphere. I really don't know how to pull "better" information out of a hat. There are not many metals in the neon layer because the neon layer is evidently far higher in the atmosphere than even I realized until seeing the SDO images for the first time. That little issue blew me away and was at least another 1200 kilometers beyond my wildest dreams. :) I'm tickled pink, but it may cause me to rethink the numbers a bit. Suffice to say the loops provide the high energy ions and most of the heavier elements are concentrated inside the loops, evidently most of them are flowing around *way* under the neon layer. Some of the heavy elements in the loops rise up and through the photosphere inside the loop and eventually fall back as coronal rain (or in GM's lingo "what flying stuff"). :) The high ionization rate of neon and oxygen, and now the SDO images suggest to me that you can outright ignore the heavier elements and fixate strictly on what you see in the solar wind data. That's my personal best advice.

Keep in mind that whatever elements you find in the solar wind data (in the exact order you find them) were most likely in a highly energetic state until they exited the photosphere, so get over the notion of photoionization in the photosphere from these wavelengths inside an electric sun theory. It ain't going to happen.

Mainstream theory on the other hand is *devastated* by this visual information. That ionization concept *DOES* apply to standard theory because mainstream theory is oblivious to the discharge between the surface and the heliosphere, so it has no possible way to explain these high ionization rates, or why these wavelengths are not absorbed in the first few *METERS* of the photosphere. Birkeland's solar model may not be completely confirmed by these images, but one thing is certain, mainstream theory is falsified by these images.
 
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You don't seem to have a model, Michael - or if you do, you're hiding it from me. If you had a model, you could tell me what kind of plasma the photosphere is composed of.


And now he thinks he can see through 100,000 kilometers of that, uh, whatever kind of plasma.
 
And now he thinks he can see through 100,000 kilometers of that, uh, whatever kind of plasma.

Most of the "extra" (7200 vs. 6000 max prior to SDO) is highly ionized silicon (You'll find that in the SERTS data too if you bothered to look). Have you even read my website?
 
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Birkeland's solar model may not be completely confirmed by these images, but one thing is certain, mainstream theory is falsified by these images.


Knock off the lie about your crazy conjecture somehow being Birkeland's solar model. It's not. And you repeating that lie will not make it true.
 
I have told you sol. I believe it is mostly highly ionized neon with hydrogen and electrons running through it with oxygen and all the other solar wind items in it. All of them are *highly* ionized by the current flow from the surface crust to the heliosphere and through the neon photosphere.

Then your model is almost certainly ruled out by opacity alone. As I've shown, the only way 1000s of km of plasma might be transparent to 171A photons is if less than .000001 of the Ne is in any of the first, second, or third ionization states. Even then, I suspect it would still be opaque - but I can't check until you give me a scenario in which such a thing is physically possible.

I really don't know how to pull "better" information out of a hat.

Then you don't have a model - it's as simple as that. Just wild conjecture.
 
Most of the "extra" is highly ionized silicon (You'll find that in the SERTS data too if you bothered to look). Have you even read my website?


So run the calculations on that highly ionized silicon plasma and show how you can see through 100,000 kilometers of it. Remember, now that you know the opacity issue is mainstream solar theory's Achilles heel, you're going to do a little math to destroy it...

Now that I finally understand how to go about destroying mainstream theory, I'll start working on it. I think *THAT* little project might even motivate me to do a little math.


And sure, I've read your web site. The first lie is right there at the top of the first page. Kind of a sleazy way to get started. The entire site is a hodge-podge of severe misunderstandings, unsubstantiated and unqualified opinions, and fraudulent claims. You might want to fix that.
 
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