"Intelligence is Self Teaching" A paranormal experience into A.I and Intelligence.

[reeceh7]

Is that set empty? To be coherent, you need to answer yes or no.

to say it is empty is to fill it with your own idea of emptiness, when there is no idea of emptiness. to say no, or to say "everything", well there's no concept of everything either, because both are concepts beyond concepts.

for the sake of what you "define" as "coherent" in this context, i would have to say yes or no, but either case says nothing about the coherence if I can simply chose either one, that would be say-so, this is the case for everything in the universe: what is real? x is real, what is x? x is y,what is y? y is z, what is z? good luck running out of variables. like Templejohn, i'm done with the word games, we could literally go on forever, I feel like i'm talking to deaf people, i understand you but theres nothing going the other way.


I'll try it with one more game:
Observe any random thing, anything, anything in the universe take your pick. How about a pen. now holding that pen in your hand, you can see that that is the pen, and that the pen is not everything that isn't the pen. notice that everything that isn't the pen looks exactly the same as everything that is the pen. So what are you looking at, the pen or everything that isn't the pen? they look the same, and this holds true for everything in the universe, everything is nothing.

 

[PixyMisa]

then the process is your object, what is the difference?

No, the process is a process.

its an object in the sense that it had to be experienced, spoken, etc

No. Experiences are brain processes.

this is completely unrelated to the context and the point, and is how something happens not a part of what it is?

There is no is, only does. Science is entirely unconcerned with explaining what things are other than in terms of what they do.

 

[PixyMisa]

How about this thought: what do reality and non- reality have in common?
if you say nothing, it would appear that they both are worthless, if you say everything, then they become the same. So which is it?

(reality/nothing)+(non-reality/nothing)=nothing
(reality/everything)+(non-reality/everything)=everything

even when two things have nothing in common, they still have something in common: nothing!

Reification fallacy.

 

[PixyMisa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzNAZE2gaBY

this guy knows something you don't!!!

Possibly he knows whether he is lying or deluded, but even that is uncertain, and he may be both.

 

[Paul2]

to say it is empty is to fill it with your own idea of emptiness, when there is no idea of emptiness.

Not true. If my beer mug is empty, and I say it's empty, I have not filled it with anything, I certainly haven't filled it with beer; my beer mug is still very, very empty, much to my chagrin.

I agree that we "create," in one sense, the idea of emptiness, but there is nothing about doing that such that something I say is empty is somehow filled with the idea of emptiness. Where are you getting that we fill something up if we say it's empty? If you can do that, I want you as my bartender!

You can't even say, plainly and clearly, if something can be empty. You're playing with words as if anything grammatical makes sense.

i understand you but theres nothing going the other way.

It seems to me that you don't understand me at all.

Observe any random thing, anything, anything in the universe take your pick. How about a pen. now holding that pen in your hand, you can see that that is the pen, and that the pen is not everything that isn't the pen.

OK, I'm with you so far.

notice that everything that isn't the pen looks exactly the same as everything that is the pen.

I do not notice that in the slightest. In fact, just the opposite. Everything that isn't the pen looks exactly *dissimilar* to the pen (the pen being equal to everything that is the pen).

So what are you looking at, the pen or everything that isn't the pen?

I can assure you, with all the sincerity that I can honestly muster, that I can tell the difference between looking at a pen and looking at everything that isn't that pen. I wish you luck in your everyday life if you have difficulty doing that.

 

[reeceh7]

when I say everything that isn't the pen, i really mean everything, everything surrounding the pen, every concept and reality that isn't the pen, everything. the pen is only what isn't the pen, otherwise, the pen wouldn't be anything. Its like when you see a colour, its not the colour your seeing, its the absence of that colour. What you see or think you see is only the perceived absence of that thing in the wholeness of all possible realities. Thus, seeing the pen and seeing everything in the universe, every possibility that isn't the possibility of that pen would be the same thing.

 

[reeceh7]

everything i've said can be summed up in this previous post:

Here's another way to express Truth:

If one assumes there is truth, one assumes non truth, duh!
But if one proves whatever they were thinking as a truth, how do you know if you were proving a truth or a non truth? How could you ever know because as you've assumed, there's truth and non truth, and they are both provable. This concept has been around in continental philosophy for ages but the scientists won't wise up, what are we proving?

Every concept is subject to this.

How does materialism account for this very apparent unknown?!?!?

there is no way to find truth, reality, anything, anywhere. all you can do is "define" for yourself, create "reasons" for yourself. Reason is nothing more than a few pre-supposed reasons, as Nietszche has said, "truth is inertia". Follow your theories to the end and find there is none, they are all infinite, and thus irrational. Just like we have seen in mathematics, all sets infinite.

Just for fun i'll show you again, and please feel free to substitute real with all your favorite words: what is real? x is real, what is x? x is y, what is y? y is z, what is z? z is who the hell knows because this gets tiring after a few millennia. all we ever do is pass off the blame to other things we haven't yet "discovered". back in he day we didn't know what rocks were made of, and guess what, we still don't because we don't know what the smallest particles are made of! what has changed? now there's just a bunch of bull**** in the way confusing everyone. The question of what is real, or what is true is a lauded question because you assume there is something that isn't true with absolutely no grounds, and you continue that way with no grounds for anything you say. whatever you do postulate as "grounds" for truth, are rooted only in other concepts that themselves have no grounds anywhere. try this for yourself, follow anything you take to be true and ask why, and don't stop asking why and see if you reach the limit of reality. Remember that little kid who so annoyingly would not stop asking why? well he never got to the end of that line of questioning before he was shutdown by some insecure materialist, or was shown the truth of his presupposition that there was a "right" answer. there are no right answers, and that is why science has never been able to answer any of life's meaningful questions because it only provides prediction for the scenario of: what if x were the case? then y. ok, but what if thats not the case? then what? then where is science? where is materialism?

As long as you are "searching", you will be "searching", because no one other than you knows what you're looking for, you created the possibility that something needed proving or finding, nothing is more important than the truth. But when you decide to finish searching, you will be found. pursue the light and you lose its source, you are the source of your searching, you are the source of your finding, you are the source of being found. There is nothing to find but yourself, in different forms and concepts all throughout life, in every possible way, only mirrors of yourself. you and you alone give meaning to the words you speak and hear, the things you see and the shi t you smell. so please don't parade your ideologies around like they're the only game in town when really, they aren't anything but personal delusions, unclear points of view, points being the key word. I would go as far as to say its totalitarian the way you regard your views compared to those of others.

Ask yourselves, what would one have to know about something, anything, to make it true?

 

[Nick227]

and how can a metaphor be on dodgy ground? he's only showing that we only know what we know in this instance, therefore we perceive relative to our "cave", the intuition pump is pretty strong in this sense. when we find something true it makes us realize how what we were seeing before was closed off, its a big wide world out there, not a flat one.

Plato's Cave deals with how things seem. But things have moved on in the last 2.5k years. There is not a self which is observing. There is not a stream of consciousness being observed. So neither of the two prerequisites of the cave metaphor in actuality exist.

Nick

 

[PixyMisa]

when I say everything that isn't the pen, i really mean everything, everything surrounding the pen, every concept and reality that isn't the pen, everything. the pen is only what isn't the pen, otherwise, the pen wouldn't be anything. Its like when you see a colour, its not the colour your seeing, its the absence of that colour. What you see or think you see is only the perceived absence of that thing in the wholeness of all possible realities. Thus, seeing the pen and seeing everything in the universe, every possibility that isn't the possibility of that pen would be the same thing.

No.

 

[PixyMisa]

there is no way to find truth, reality, anything, anywhere.

Sorry, but this is patently false.

all you can do is "define" for yourself, create "reasons" for yourself.

Again, patently false.

Reason is nothing more than a few pre-supposed reasons, as Nietszche has said, "truth is inertia". Follow your theories to the end and find there is none, they are all infinite, and thus irrational. Just like we have seen in mathematics, all sets infinite.

And again, patently false, particularly the nonsense about sets.

Just for fun i'll show you again, and please feel free to substitute real with all your favorite words: what is real? x is real, what is x? x is y, what is y? y is z, what is z? z is who the hell knows because this gets tiring after a few millennia. all we ever do is pass off the blame to other things we haven't yet "discovered". back in he day we didn't know what rocks were made of, and guess what, we still don't because we don't know what the sma .... osition that there was a "right" answer. there are no right answers, and that is why science has never been able to answer any of life's meaningful questions because it only provides prediction for the scenario of: what if x were the case? then y. ok, but what if thats not the case? then what? then where is science? where is materialism?

Science isn't concerned about what "is". It's concerned with that things do. It defines things by what they do.

Because that is, in fact, all you can do.

And yet, it is enough.

As long as you are "searching", you will be "searching", because no one other than you knows what you're looking for, you created the possibili ... ou see and the shi t you smell. so please don't parade your ideologies around like they're the only game in town when really, they aren't anything but personal delusions, unclear points of view, points being the key word. I would go as far as to say its totalitarian the way you regard your views compared to those of others.

That is entirely your problem.

Ask yourselves, what would one have to know about something, anything, to make it true?

Ask yourself, what is that question supposed to mean?

 

[Nick227]

everything i've said can be summed up in this previous post:

there is no way to find truth, reality, anything, anywhere...[etc etc]

Just for fun i'll show you again, and please feel free to substitute real with all your favorite words: what is real? x is real....[etc etc]

As long as you are "searching", you will be "searching", because...[etc, etc]

Ask yourselves, what would one have to know about something, anything, to make it true?

The thing you still completely overlook in all your cogitations, reeceh7, is that there is no self which is aware. You are commencing from an unexamined assumption and creating a vast mystery for yourself, which you then attempt to convince others of. Can you see this?

Nick

 

[Philosaur]

Just for fun i'll show you again, and please feel free to substitute real with all your favorite words: what is real? x is real, what is x? x is y, what is y? y is z, what is z? z is who the hell knows because this gets tiring after a few millennia. all we ever do is pass off the blame to other things we haven't yet "discovered".

It's always funny to me that the mystical sort of people always dismiss science because "science doesn't really know anything".

back in he day we didn't know what rocks were made of, and guess what, we still don't because we don't know what the smallest particles are made of! what has changed? now there's just a bunch of bull**** in the way confusing everyone.

Oh, did you forget that all that BS in the way also allowed us to grow crops, domesticate livestock, make paper, and build the damn computer you're using to type this drivel?

The question of what is real, or what is true is a lauded question because you assume there is something that isn't true with absolutely no grounds, and you continue that way with no grounds for anything you say. whatever you do postulate as "grounds" for truth, are rooted only in other concepts that themselves have no grounds anywhere.

It's not scientists who claim to have the absolute truth about things, it's religious types.

In any case, part of being a scientist is being acutely aware that there are things we don't know, and things we WILL NEVER know, and accepting that limitation on our knowledge. It's apparent that YOU and other mystical types are the ones who can't handle the "mystery" of things, though you talk about it CONSTANTLY.

try this for yourself, follow anything you take to be true and ask why, and don't stop asking why and see if you reach the limit of reality. Remember that little kid who so annoyingly would not stop asking why? well he never got to the end of that line of questioning before he was shutdown by some insecure materialist, or was shown the truth of his presupposition that there was a "right" answer.

Wrong. The kids who keep asking "why?" all their lives become scientists. Scientists are thrilled by the prospect that the line of questioning never ends. The people who are truly bothered become mystics and Bible-thumpers.

there are no right answers, and that is why science has never been able to answer any of life's meaningful questions

Which "meaningful" questions has your brand of mysticism answered? How many lives has it saved. No really, start counting--we'll wait. I guarantee that the work of scientists has saved literally billions of people.

As long as you are "searching", you will be "searching", because no one other than you knows what you're looking for, you created the possibility that something needed proving or finding, nothing is more important than the truth. But when you decide to finish searching, you will be found. pursue the light and you lose its source, you are the source of your searching, you are the source of your finding, you are the source of being found. There is nothing to find but yourself, in different forms and concepts all throughout life, in every possible way, only mirrors of yourself. you and you alone give meaning to the words you speak and hear, the things you see and the shi t you smell.

More from the Random Mystical Nonsense Generator...

so please don't parade your ideologies around like they're the only game in town when really, they aren't anything but personal delusions, unclear points of view, points being the key word. I would go as far as to say its totalitarian the way you regard your views compared to those of others.

Pots and kettles and black...

Ask yourselves, what would one have to know about something, anything, to make it true?

That's an invalid question, like "When did you stop raping chickens?" Knowledge doesn't make things true.

 

[Paul2]

when I say everything that isn't the pen, i really mean everything, everything surrounding the pen, every concept and reality that isn't the pen, everything. the pen is only what isn't the pen, otherwise, the pen wouldn't be anything. Its like when you see a colour, its not the colour your seeing, its the absence of that colour. What you see or think you see is only the perceived absence of that thing in the wholeness of all possible realities. Thus, seeing the pen and seeing everything in the universe, every possibility that isn't the possibility of that pen would be the same thing.

If this isn't twaddle, I don't know what is. When I see a color, what I see is not the absence of the color, what I see is the color.

 

[PixyMisa]

Oh, did you forget that all that BS in the way also allowed us to grow crops, domesticate livestock, make paper, and build the damn computer you're using to type this drivel?

That one always gets me.

They come and post on an internet forum that science is wrong about everything and that their brand of mysticism is the only path to understanding.

They simply have no grasp of what science is, how it works, or what it has achieved, no understanding of or interest in the world around them, not for what it is, rather than what they want it to be.

The amount of scientific and engineering effort involved in getting to this level of technology so that they can come here and post their nonsense would stagger the imagination, if they had any.

</rant>

 

[TempleJohn]

I laugh. You guys mind if I keep lurking for a while? The lack of communication skills and common courtesy here is quite entertaining. In a kind of American Gladiators way. Poor reeceh7 has been depersonalized to the extent that he's become an effigy of sorts. If I were PixyMisa I'd be ashamed. Philosaur, too. Nick is cool though, more of a straight shooter who attempts to focus on the discussion at hand, rather than arrogantly passing judgment over imaginary beings referred to as "them".

 

[Philosaur]

I laugh. You guys mind if I keep lurking for a while? The lack of communication skills and common courtesy here is quite entertaining. In a kind of American Gladiators way. Poor reeceh7 has been depersonalized to the extent that he's become an effigy of sorts. If I were PixyMisa I'd be ashamed. Philosaur, too. Nick is cool though, more of a straight shooter who attempts to focus on the discussion at hand, rather than arrogantly passing judgment over imaginary beings referred to as "them".

Anyone who disagrees with you and reeceh should be ashamed, eh?

I don't much care if you lurk, or pop your head up to squawk every now and then. I return common courtesy where I find it. Reeceh has decided that scientists and the scientifically-minded are all "deluded" (his words) and peddlers of "bull****" (his words), so I stepped up to return the vitriol.

Depersonalized? Effigy? Hyperbolize much? I am quite aware that reeceh is a real person. I just happen to think he/she has gotten into the habit of spouting stuff that could come from a Random Mysticism Nonsense Generator, since it's easier than actually thinking and it tends to impress the drunk undergrads hanging out at the pub.

 

[TempleJohn]

Anyone who disagrees with you and reeceh should be ashamed, eh?

Yes, Philosaur. That's what I'm saying. How rational of you

 

[PixyMisa]

I laugh. You guys mind if I keep lurking for a while? The lack of communication skills and common courtesy here is quite entertaining.

No, look, it's very simple:

If you don't want to be told you are talking nonsense, don't talk nonsense.

For us not to point that you are talking nonsense when you are, that would be a true discourtesy. We grant you the respect of assuming that you are capable of and desiring of learning and understanding; if that respect is unwarranted, just let us know and we'll all put you on ignore.

 

[WWHP]

Nice this chat is still moving! My apologies for my absence, my life has been going at 1000 mph on every possible plain, with success reaching her tentacles throughout every single corner! damn those plant spirits really know how to throw a party. Will chime in soon, at some point, promise!

DNA = MY SELF and she evolved my brain to realize that.

I challenge any materialists to refute the clear knowledge of that proposition. Hail DNA!

 

[WWHP]

No, look, it's very simple:

If you don't want to be told you are talking nonsense, don't talk nonsense.

For us not to point that you are talking nonsense when you are, that would be a true discourtesy. We grant you the respect of assuming that you are capable of and desiring of learning and understanding; if that respect is unwarranted, just let us know and we'll all put you on ignore.

funny and ironically, you have never made sense in this entire thread!

Lotsa love to you pickle