9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Matthew Ellard]

One can certainly see how annoying it must have been. The stubborn refusal of the Germans to kill Jews.

Vitka was to blow up a German train as it made its way east, carrying soldiers and supplies to the Russian front. For two weeks, she had left the ghetto each afternoon and spent the night wandering alone along the train tracks, which passed through the forest seven miles south of Vilna. She was scouting for a place to blow up the train - somewhere far from the ghetto and far from the forest camps where the Jews were used as slave labor. The Nazis met each rebellious act with collective punishment, killing a hundred Jews for one dead German. The underground leaders did not want to give the Germans reason to blame the explosion on Jews. But everywhere Vitka went, she found Jews - draining swamps, breaking rocks, building roads.

Your comment makes no sense. The story is about a partisan fighting the Germans. The Germans "kill a hundred jews for each dead German". How is this an example of the "stubborn refusal of the Germans to kill jews"? The Germans seem quite happy to kill jewish slave labour in this story.

I can assure you that
a. Vievis was connected by the Germans to the standard gauge line by 1943, regardless out many branch lines they had going to local destinations.
b. Even if it wasnt, Jews are unable to get off one train and embark on another.

The "local destination" for the narrow gauge track was to Paneriai. A city on the main line where 100,000 jews and poles were executed in August 1944.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paneriai


How are you going on Treblinka? Can you explain to me why there are bodies there yet?

 

[dudalb]

So a Certain Widdle Wabbit has pretty much outed himself as a Holocaust Denier?

 

[TSR]

So a Certain Widdle Wabbit has pretty much outed himself as a Holocaust Denier?

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Zie was out zir first day here.
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[Toke]

So a Certain Widdle Wabbit has pretty much outed himself as a Holocaust Denier?

A bit of an understatement.

 

[little grey rabbit]

So a Certain Widdle Wabbit has pretty much outed himself as a Holocaust Denier?

What gave it away?

 

[ddt]

So a Certain Widdle Wabbit has pretty much outed himself as a Holocaust Denier?

It took you until the Wabbit's hero's birthday to see that?

(in your timezone it's still the 20th, AFAIK)

 

[Ignorantbystander]

The rabbit already outed himself by being a 'krema-denier', which is something like a 'no-planer' for truthers or... the more ridiculous among the ridiculous.
He seems to have switched from brickfactory to bakery though

 

[little grey rabbit]

Perhaps Krema IV and V were brick factories?
I trusted Shlomo Venesia.

BTW, Ignorant, could I ask you to second my nomination for Krema Denial in the Stundie nominations?

 

[Ignorantbystander]

Of course, always happy to help the feeble-minded.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Of course, always happy to help the feeble-minded.

Egggcelent oh intellectual one; go to here
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171572
to add your voice to Krema Denial making the cut.

Then during May you need to vote, but first priority is to get it on the ballot.

 

[Ignorantbystander]

Well, if you're craving for attention about your Krema-denial and love being ridiculed, maybe I should post your 'Grey Rabbit' movie poster here...

 

[little grey rabbit]

Well, if you're craving for attention about your Krema-denial and love being ridiculed, maybe I should post your 'Grey Rabbit' movie poster here...

I have to admit it was a very good effort. It puts Roberto's photoshop efforts to shame

 

[Matthew Ellard]

I have to admit it was a very good effort. It puts Roberto's photoshop efforts to shame

Well I doubt you are going to respond to my questions about Treblinka so I thought we would now move onto some holocaust denial evidence concerning Hoess.

Poor Mr Hoess said he was whipped into making a confession. That he was given alcohol. That he was forced to walk around in spring without a jumper (pullover in American) and that he was kept awake with axe-handles for three nights. Have you read Mr Hoess' testimony concerning this torture?

Can you help me? Was it the first time or the second time Hoess was arrested that the evil British used his wife's whip from her suitcase against him? Please quote him by all means.....

(Hoess is lying through his teeth. He even lied in the Nuremberg Trials about how many victims he killed and holocaust deniers love to edit out this bit of the court transcripts when the judge realises this.)

DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore correct that exclusively one man by the name of Eichmann had notes about this, the man who had the task of organizing and assembling these people?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore true that Eichmann stated to you that in Auschwitz a total sum of more than 2 million Jews had been destroyed?
HOESS: Yes.

 

[9/11-investigator]

That article on page 8 is NOT the article I was refering to. It was a small article on the frontpage of a katern.

Oh my gosh, what have I done. Now I must go to the library to find a copy of the newspaper.

On saturday I went to a pub with a friend. I saw the cover page of the Volkskrant with an article that interested me (not H-word related). Then I saw the H-word article, on page 8 indeed, like DDT correctly pointed out with this online link. Later at home I remembered that it was an article on the cover page that had drawn my interest but I had forgotten that this was not H-word related.

Here are the relevant quotes from the article (thanks to the library that I had to visit yesterday):

Leerlingen uit haar poezie-klasje hadden er haar nog op aangesproken. 'Die mevrouw Engel-Wijnberg op de televisie die kamp Sobibor heeft overleefd, is dat soms familie?' Chawwa Wijnberg had kort geantwoord: 'mijn hele familie is omgekomen tijdens de oorlog'. En toen wasw ze doorgegaan met de les.

She obviously had assumed that everybody had died.

Here was the mistake I made: it was not Chawwa who had conducted a family tree research but a friend (between the quick reading of the article in a noisy cafe and the posting were several hours as well as a few beers):

Een vriendin die bij het Nationaal Archief werkt, had de familiestamboom uitgezocht: Chawwa-Wijnbergs grootvader bleek de broer van Selma Wijnbergs vader.

Here comes an additional confusion on my behalf:

Plotseling stond haar wereld op zijn kop. 'Altijd al met het idee geleefd dat iedereen van mijn vaders kant in de oorlog was omgekomen', vertelt Chawwa. Maar opeens was er familie, nichtjes en neefjes in Canada en Amerika, van wie ze het bestaan nooit heeft geweten.

A few hours later the story had morphed in my head into one where Chawwa had done family tree research and had found several family members everywhere in America. After carefull rereading it is obvious that all these new family members probably are all offspring from Selma. My excuses for these inaccuracies, not a result from intentional lying but from quoting from memory.

Nevertheless, the story illustrates my point anyway: within the H-word context everybody interprets a missing family member as a murdered family member. But this needs not be correct.

 

[TSR]

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Gee, 9/11 -- you seem to have missed this:
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Did you ever hear of that 'extermination camp'?

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Yes, unlike you I am fairly well versed in the historicity of the Holocaust.

I've answered your question, now it it is your turn: How far is the general Minsk area from Maly Trostenets? And how far from other death camps?
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You will be the first to know if I'll have new insights regarding that report.

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IOW, "I cannot substantively discuss my claims about partisans in the context of the Jäger report without revealing that my claims about the EG were at best ill-informed if not outright lies in support of the murder of several thousand children, so I'm going to continue to ignore the whole issue."
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Question to you: how many Jews according to you were killed by the locals (rather then the Einsatzgruppen) do you think. Have you already formed ideas as to why the locals killed the Jews? Do you think that people who install a murderous regime should be punished for their deeds (I think they should).

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Well, I will have to defer to Jäger, who claimed that he specifically ordered those murders. And documented their numbers.

Not "according to me." According to Jäger. Do feel free to try and refute his numbers.

I see no reason, given Jäger's reports to his superiors, to differentiate between murders by "locals" under Jäger's orders and in support of an irrational belief that children were some sort of threat because of an accident of birth and murders directly by Nazis in support of an irrational belief that children were some sort of threat because of an accident of birth
.

Are you really trying to say that the locals were not keen at shooting their tormenters?

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In what way had those thousands of children tormented the locals?
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He will probably keep harrasing me with this question until the end of times.

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No, just until you either admit the murders had no rational reason for being committed, or provide documentation of such a reason.
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TSR, who would rather not reveal his ethnic/religious identity (not difficult to guess why), does not loose a minute of sleep about all these hundred of thousands of German kids who were willingly murdered by the Anglos.

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Were those German kids specifically rounded up and killed for no other reason than because they were German?

Do you really not see a difference?
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TSR is only worried about Jewish kids. Now why would that be do you think?

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Wrong: I hereby officially and unequivocally deplore the accidental deaths of any children of any nationality during the course of the war. If you have any evidence that those German children were specifically targeted, present it and I will denounce that intent.

Your turn: the Jäger report explicitly reports the specific targeting and murder of children who you have yet to show were any sort of threat to those who murdered them.

Either refute that report (don't forget to show why you might do so) or announce that you deplore those murders and those that committed them, regardless of nationality.

Then explain why those intentional murders do not rise to the level of war crimes.

Or be exposed as supporting the murder of innocent children
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[9/11-investigator]

DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore correct that exclusively one man by the name of Eichmann had notes about this, the man who had the task of organizing and assembling these people?
HOESS: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore true that Eichmann stated to you that in Auschwitz a total sum of more than 2 million Jews had been destroyed?
HOESS: Yes.

One wonders what points Matthew wants to make here?

Nobody believes that 'more than 2 million Jews were destroyed' at Auschwitz. So why would Hoess confess to so many victims? [Answer: he is simply saying what his tormenters want to hear, ask KSM for how this works in the US]

Matthew comes with an exchange between Hoess and a mr Kauffmann. Kaufmann no doubt is one of the 70% Jews who conducted this show trial scam in Nuremberg. Look at how Kaufmann operates to get a '2 million story' in place. The storyline is that Hoess does not have a clue how many people perished in his own camp, because [drumroll] he was forbidden to make notes (by whom?). He learned the 'true' answer anyway because Eichmann (who conveniently was not present at the 'trial') had told him the 'real' number. All hearsay. The people who supposedly really know what happened are not present for cross examination. What a pity!

Decades later these numbers are steadily revised downwards based on maximum capacity calculations, assuming that crematoria are working around the clock. A pure assumption.

I think I stay with bishop Williamson and his 200,000 or so people who perished mainly due to the circumstances created by the Allies.

 

[dudalb]

Funny how our investigator seems relunctant to proclaim his views to his fellow Netherlanders. I wonder why........

 

[TSR]

So why would Hoess confess to so many victims? [Answer: he is simply saying what his tormenters want to hear, ask KSM for how this works in the US]

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Then what is your explanation for Hoess later revising his estimate down when writing his memoirs while jailed by those same "tormentors?"
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Decades later these numbers are steadily revised downwards based on maximum capacity calculations, assuming that crematoria are working around the clock. A pure assumption.

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No, the *initial* estimates were based on "capacity." The most current are based on the number of inmates having been recorded as being sent there, less the number known to have escaped or otherwise survived.
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I think I stay with bishop Williamson and his 200,000 or so people who perished mainly due to the circumstances created by the Allies.

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Of course, you do -- but you do so with no more evidentiary support than he does.

Shall we get back to your refusal to condemn the killling of children by your heroes and those under their command?
.

 

[9/11-investigator]

This link illustrates the sorry state of holocaustianism, the current religion of the West, now on its way out:

http://truthjihad.blogspot.com/2010/04/dear-andrea-merkel-how-much-do-raul.html

This story is about mr Dalton who recently wrote this book on the H-word.

Although the title ("Debating the Holocaust: A New Look At Both Sides") might suggest otherwise, his conclusions are clearly tilted towards the revisionnist position, although Dalton goes to great length to prove that the H-word somehow really did happen (but, you see, not the 6M H-word).

Mr. Dalton will appear in a show, and now, surprise, surprise, nobody wants to debate him!

The 'best documented event in history', but nobody seems to be keen to score a few easy points against this scoundrel.

Over the past few months I have invited Deborah Lipstadt, Michael Shermer, John Zimmerman--the three most prominent critics of the "Holocaust deniers" -- as well as many dozens of professors from several of the leading Holocaust and Genocide Studies and Jewish Studies programs. While I have received a few cordial refusals, notably from Shermer and Lipstadt, the vast majority of the academic "experts" have refused to respond...as has anti-revisionist blogger Muehlenkamp.

A neutral observer might tend to the conclusion that all these H-word big shots prefer to communicate with their sheepish feminized lefty students, who love the H-word horros story and from whom no real opposition is to be expected (the kind of pupils our own Nick Terry loves so much) but as soon as they encounter some real opposition these cowards chicken out.

Tentative conclusion: there was no Holocaust.

 

[ddt]

A few hours later the story had morphed in my head into one where Chawwa had done family tree research and had found several family members everywhere in America. After carefull rereading it is obvious that all these new family members probably are all offspring from Selma. My excuses for these inaccuracies, not a result from intentional lying but from quoting from memory.

Thanks for the apologies and for checking the article at the library. Apologies on my part for calling you a liar - that was too strong. I can see now how the story can have morphed.

Nevertheless, the story illustrates my point anyway: within the H-word context everybody interprets a missing family member as a murdered family member. But this needs not be correct.

That's why we, in general, don't argue from personal stories but from careful work from archivarians and historians who studied the archives and the official papers.

Note also that Chawwa and Selma were not quite immediate family. Chawwa's great-grandfather was Selma's grandfather. That makes Selma her first-cousin-once-removed (in Dutch: achtertante). Do you know all such faraway family members? I hardly know all my ordinary cousins...