Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[shuttlt]

I looked up the etymology of the word dinner:

c.1300, from O.Fr. disner, originally "breakfast," later "lunch," noun use of infinitive disner (see dine). Always used in Eng. for the main meal of the day; shift from midday to evening began with the fashionable classes. Childish reduplication din-din is attested from 1905

Perhaps Amanda is using the 19th Century meaning? Seriously though, I know there are parts of the UK where 'dinner' doesn't refer to the last mean of the day. What is the usage in Seattle?

 

[Kestrel]

I have posted it in this thread before, Kestrel. Are you saying they had "dinner" at 3 pm ?

The source I provided said they were having a pizza at 3 PM. You can call it a late lunch, an early dinner or high tea for all I care. But it doesn't answer the question of when Amanda last ate before being questioned on the night of Nov. 5 and 6.

If you have evidence that Amanda ate later in the day, dig it up and provide a link.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

peroxidase

Welcome LiamG:

The results indicated that particular care should be taken to avoid interferences when a crime scene is contaminated with parsnip, turnip or horseradish, and when surfaces coated with enamel paint are involved.

(Source: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/85007501/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 )

I didn't hear their lawyers argue they were all stomping barefoot making parsnip wine that night!

I wonder what would happen if a criminal washed a floor containing bloody footprints with a solution of water and horseradish.

Stilicho,

Many plant-derived products have peroxidase enzymes, not just turnips and horse radishes. The paper you cited is hardly comprehensive with respect to the number of fruits and vegetables tested. Pineapple has a significant level of peroxidase activity:
P. Caligore et al., American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (1982 35: 1487-89.
www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/35/6/1487.pdf

Celery also contains a substantial amount of peroxidase activity: Melberg et al., BIOCHEMISTRY AND MOLECULAR BIOLOGY EDUCATION. Vol. 37, No. 2, pp. 92–98, 2009. Also note that “peroxidases are relatively more rare in the animal world, but are common in plants.” C. T. Walsh, Enzymatic Reaction Mechanisms, W. H. Freeman (1979), 489.

http://www.wavesignal.com/Forensics/Luminol.html
When the reducing compound is luminol, peroxidases are capable of catalyzing its oxidation with a much higher efficiency than any other catalytic species [49,105] and, for this reason, can produce significant levels of chemiluminescence, which can be misinterpreted as blood dependent [73,112,113].
[49] K. Kadish, K.M. Smith, R. Guilard, The Porphyrin Handbook, vol. 8, Academic Press, London, 1999.
[73] L.T. Lytle, D.G. Hedgecock, J. Forensic Sci. 23 (1978) 550–562.
[112] J.R. Scholmerich, R. Andreesen, A. Kapp, M. Ernst, W. Woods, Bioluminescence and Chemiluminescence: New Perspectives, John Wiley & Sons Ltd., Chichester, 1987.
[113] A.M. Egorov, B.B. Kim, V.V. Pisarev, Y.L. Kapeliuch, I.G. Gazarian, in: A.A. Szalay, P.E. Stanley, L.J. Kricka (Eds.), Bioluminescence and Chemiluminescence Status Report, John Wiley & Sons Ltd., Chichester, 1993, pp. 286–290.
[105] K. Kadish, K.M. Smith, R. Guilard, The Porphyrin Handbook, vol. 9, Academic Press, London, 1999.
(emphasis added)

Coffee break #2 over…

Halides1

 

[Alt+F4]

The source I provided said they were having a pizza at 3 PM.

That source also says the police "picked up" Rafaelle at that time which we know isn't true.

 

[stilicho]

Stilicho,

Celery also contains a substantial amount of peroxidase activity:

Coffee break #2 over…

Halides1

Yes, I saw the sources you can work back from on Wikipaedia and Google, too. And, no, the defence didn't claim they were making cream of celery soup on the floor of the cottage either.

 

[quadraginta]

Stilicho,

Many plant-derived products have peroxidase enzymes, not just turnips and horse radishes. The paper you cited is hardly comprehensive with respect to the number of fruits and vegetables tested. Pineapple has a significant level of peroxidase activity:
P. Caligore et al., American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (1982 35: 1487-89.
www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/35/6/1487.pdf

Celery also contains a substantial amount of peroxidase activity: Melberg et al., BIOCHEMISTRY AND MOLECULAR BIOLOGY EDUCATION. Vol. 37, No. 2, pp. 92–98, 2009. Also note that “peroxidases are relatively more rare in the animal world, but are common in plants.” C. T. Walsh, Enzymatic Reaction Mechanisms, W. H. Freeman (1979).

http://www.wavesignal.com/Forensics/Luminol.html
When the reducing compound is luminol, peroxidases are capable of catalyzing its oxidation with a much higher efficiency than any other catalytic species [49,105] and, for this reason, can produce significant levels of chemiluminescence, which can be misinterpreted as blood dependent [73,112,113].
[49] K. Kadish, K.M. Smith, R. Guilard, The Porphyrin Handbook, vol. 8, Academic Press, London, 1999.
[73] L.T. Lytle, D.G. Hedgecock, J. Forensic Sci. 23 (1978) 550–562.
[112] J.R. Scholmerich, R. Andreesen, A. Kapp, M. Ernst, W. Woods, Bioluminescence and Chemiluminescence: New Perspectives, John Wiley & Sons Ltd., Chichester, 1987.
[113] A.M. Egorov, B.B. Kim, V.V. Pisarev, Y.L. Kapeliuch, I.G. Gazarian, in: A.A. Szalay, P.E. Stanley, L.J. Kricka (Eds.), Bioluminescence and Chemiluminescence Status Report, John Wiley & Sons Ltd., Chichester, 1993, pp. 286–290.
[105] K. Kadish, K.M. Smith, R. Guilard, The Porphyrin Handbook, vol. 9, Academic Press, London, 1999.
(emphasis added)

Coffee break #2 over…

Halides1

Having effectively demolished any application of DNA analysis as a criminal forensic tool, halides1 now sets his sights on Luminol.

Next? Fingerprints? Photography? Who can tell.

Should the thread last long enough (and there is every indication that it will) he will ultimately succeed in proving that no evidence of any sort is sufficient to convict anyone of anything.

In his own mind, at least.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

fruit juice

Yes, I saw the sources you can work back from on Wikipaedia and Google, too. And, no, the defence didn't claim they were making cream of celery soup on the floor of the cottage either.

Did Rudy drink fruit juice out of the refrigerator? IIRC he said something about this.

I don't use wikipedia for most scientific questions. Too many errors.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

luminol is only presumptive

Having effectively demolished any application of DNA analysis as a criminal forensic tool, halides1 now sets his sights on Luminol.

Next? Fingerprints? Photography? Who can tell.

Should the thread last long enough (and there is every indication that it will) he will ultimately succeed in proving that no evidence of any sort is sufficient to convict anyone of anything.

In his own mind, at least.

There is a very simple answer to the problem, and that is to follow up with a more specific test than Luminol.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

The Massei report came to several conclusions about the crime scene that have been discussed in this thread. For example, the judge concluded that the rock was thrown from inside to break the window.

This is a clear indication that the laws of physics can be disregarded Italian court decisions.

Which laws of physics were broken for the Massei report?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Did Rudy drink fruit juice out of the refrigerator? IIRC he said something about this.

I don't use wikipedia for most scientific questions. Too many errors.

Raffaele drank fruit juice of the refrigerator before or after he helped kill Meredith?

And at what point did he mention spilling it all over the floor/hallway/filomena's room?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Rudy

Raffaele drank fruit juice of the refrigerator before or after he helped kill Meredith?

And at what point did he mention spilling it all over the floor/hallway/filomena's room?

I said Rudy, not Raffaele.

 

[quadraginta]

Did Rudy drink fruit juice out of the refrigerator? IIRC he said something about this.

"In his haste to escape the scene of the crime, Rudy carelessly painted fruit juice on the contracting (and expanding) soles of his shoes ... and/or feet, just before hopping desperately around the apartment."
​

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[Kestrel]

Which laws of physics were broken for the Massei report?

It starts with a rather clear violation of Newton's Second Law.

 

[lector]

Did Rudy drink fruit juice out of the refrigerator? IIRC he said something about this.

Yeah, he had to wash down that bad kebab. Fruit just is just the thing when your guts are acting up on you.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

juice from the fridge

Yeah, he had to wash down that bad kebab. Fruit just is just the thing when your guts are acting up on you.

"Whilst he was having a drink of fruit juice from the fridge, he claims Meredith found that 300 euros (her rent money) was missing from her bedside cabinet. Meredith was naturally upset by this discovery and straight away blamed “druggy Amanda”. Rudy said they both checked Amanda’s room to see if the money was there. However, it couldn’t be found and Rudy sought to console her."
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...rejected_rudy_guedes_explanations_as_fiction/

Of course this site could be in league with FOA...

 

[Fulcanelli]

According to this source, it was three in the afternoon.

So, your source is Paul Ciolino. Do you have a source from anyone who isn't FOA and a complete joke?

 

[Fulcanelli]

The source I provided said they were having a pizza at 3 PM. You can call it a late lunch, an early dinner or high tea for all I care. But it doesn't answer the question of when Amanda last ate before being questioned on the night of Nov. 5 and 6.

If you have evidence that Amanda ate later in the day, dig it up and provide a link.

Try the trial testimony Kestrel, you know, that thing they had a few months ago?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

When in Rome

So, your source is Paul Ciolino. Do you have a source from anyone who isn't FOA and a complete joke?

Is this the same Paul Ciolino who was CORRECT about the existence of Amanda's photograph in the forensic science office in Rome?

 

[Amazer]

The Massei report came to several conclusions about the crime scene that have been discussed in this thread. For example, the judge concluded that the rock was thrown from inside to break the window.

This is a clear indication that the laws of physics can be disregarded Italian court decisions.

Well, based on my 12 years experience working with natural stone (previous career) I can tell you with a fair degree of certainty that the stone wasn't thrown from outside either.

The way this stone behaved IF it was thrown from outside is nothing short of a miracle. It hits the window and the inside shutter and looses all it's forward momentum and starts to move in a direction that is at an almost 90 degree angle of it's previous flight path. To make things even better, once it hits the black paper bag, it does this same feat again.

The problem of course is that no known stone has the properties/qualities that would allow it to do such a thing.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Is this the same Paul Ciolino who was CORRECT about the existence of Amanda's photograph in the forensic science office in Rome?

He was right about 'something' so he's therefore right about 'everything' and is a sterling source...is that your argument?