Hugo Chavez Loves Free Speech...
- Thread starter dudalb
- Start date
funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
Boxing hero Edwin Valero (complete with Chavez tattoo) has been arrested for murder of his wife. This guy is a big hero over there, be interesting to see how this plays out in the press.
DC
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DC
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yeah something that would never happen in a Capitalist country !
you also reported your own post as OT?
DC
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when the claims have been trown into this topc from Wildcat, nobody cried OT.
after i showed that this is not evidence at all. then you guys start report OT.
very telling.
Least of all yourself.
That's because it's so much more convenient for you to discuss something -- anything -- else about Chavez, except for the fact that he's a thuggish dictator who closes down opposition TV channels and arrests his critics.
Threads topics tend to drift in this forum. But no fair being "saved by topic drift" and then complaining about it when somebody reminds you what the original topic is, and how you turned out to be defending yet another Latin American El Presidente type simply because he spews "socialist" gibberish to fool the useful idiots.
DC
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i have discused alot of thing where i even say i disagree with Chavez, so?
you are just pissed there is noone that finds an idiot like you usefull.
Whenever the horrors and misery of, say, North Vietnam, Maoist China, or cold-war-era Poland were noted, the usual anti-anti-communist cry was, "But there's also injustice in the USA!".
Well, true, there is, but in the USA, there hasn't been tens of millions of dead from starvation, one-party rule where saying the wrong thing can cost you your head, or a gulag empire for reeducating anybody the dictator du jour doesn't like.
Still, once more, the biggest, and most obvious, problem in all of the "socialist" arguments made here in favor of Chavez is that none of his defenders would, in a million years, think for a minute of leaving their own evil, unjust, capitalistic country and moving to any good, just, socialist country -- not even to a relatively benign one like, say, 1960s pre-Soviet-invasion Czechoslovakia, let alone to Chavez's tin-pot dictatorship.
The emigration balance in the communist - vs. - capitalist world has been a few hundreds of millions moving, or trying to move, to the capitalist west from the socialist east, and a few hundreds (if that) going the other way.
Pick an immigrant at random, and the chances of him moving from a capitalist country to a socialist one are comparable to the chances of winning the lottery. The chances are even lower -- that is, zero -- that one of the brave defenders of the great and just socialist system will move to such a country.
So much for socialism being comparable, let alone superior, to capitalism in the real world. As (I think) Emerson said in a different context but is perfectly applicable to our brave defenders of the socialist system, "your actions speak so loudly, I can't hear what you're saying".
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You're delusional. The only reason you're being told you've drifted OT is because the debate there became irrelevant, primarily because of the lack of literacy on your part.
I guess the ability to read and supporting Chavez are mutually exclusive. It wouldn't be the first such example at all.
McHrozni
DC
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sofar i have read Chapter IV part A. and i agree with everything they say in that part.
indeed the law must be more detailed.
and i also agree that the current wording does hinder free expression.
the law must be rewritten with precise wording. we know that problem here in Switzerland.
DC
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The easiest way to abuse laws is to write them in a way that allows for multiple interpretations. If you also control the courts, like Chavez does, all you have to do then is tell them which explanation you want in a particular case.
I hope you didn't think the law is unclear by accident.
McHrozni
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you got evidence that it is not by accident?
i dont know if accident or not. and it doesnt matter, they must be clear.
also i would like to know how exactly he is controling the courts.
yeah ad homs will help you alot
It's not an ad hominem, it's a statement of fact*. Since you made no argument I also wasn't refuting anything by that post, which also eliminates a possibility it was ad hominem at all
* proof:
Question or challenge:
Prove FARC knew which computers and other pieces of equipment were there, for example the serial numbers of all compromised equipment (including any laptops that were destroyed or lost during the raid, in case any were - not an unlikely event in the slightest). Prove they knew exactly what devices contained, what they didn't contain and which information might have been destroyed in time and which information was there but didn't fall into Colombian hands. Prove they know exactly what Colombia may connect this with to find out about other money trails FARC uses to finance itself.
In short, you need to demonstrate to the point of certainty, insofar as this is possible, that FARC already knows all the relevant information. Right now all you have is that it is not impossible for them to know it, but it is extremely implausible that they do.
Your answer:
again, FARC only need to read the Interpol report.
Item 26:
Toshiba Satellite M55-5331
bearing serial number
16239763K
Item 27:
One Laptop Toshiba Satellite
M55-5331 bearing serial number
16238282K
Item 28:
One Laptop Toshiba Satellite
U205-S5057 bearing serial
number 17040828H
Item 30:
One external hard drive LACIE
bearing serial number
JJ86708J60054QR
Item 31:
One external hard disk LACIE
bearing serial number
SJHHRDMH
Item 32:
One USB thumb drive
SANDISK SDCZ6-2048RB
bearing serial number
BE0707AAFB
Item 33:
One USB thumb drive Cruzer
Micro 2 GB bearing serial
number 33
Item 34:
One USB thumb drive
KINSTONCN J02907 04223-
3171002F
A literate person would know that you can't prove FARC knew before the raid all serial numbers of all equipment they had there and exactly what was on each of them simply by posting the serial numbers of the said equipment. Sure, they might know the serial numbers now, but unless they knew them in advance it's rather unlikely this did any good to them.
Literacy and supporting Chavez are indeed mutually exclusive.
McHrozni
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DC
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It's not an ad hominem, it's a statement of fact*. Since you made no argument I also wasn't refuting anything by that post, which also eliminates a possibility it was ad hominem at all
* proof:
Question or challenge:
Prove FARC knew which computers and other pieces of equipment were there, for example the serial numbers of all compromised equipment (including any laptops that were destroyed or lost during the raid, in case any were - not an unlikely event in the slightest). Prove they knew exactly what devices contained, what they didn't contain and which information might have been destroyed in time and which information was there but didn't fall into Colombian hands. Prove they know exactly what Colombia may connect this with to find out about other money trails FARC uses to finance itself.
In short, you need to demonstrate to the point of certainty, insofar as this is possible, that FARC already knows all the relevant information. Right now all you have is that it is not impossible for them to know it, but it is extremely implausible that they do.
Your answer:
again, FARC only need to read the Interpol report.
Item 26:
Toshiba Satellite M55-5331
bearing serial number
16239763K
Item 27:
One Laptop Toshiba Satellite
M55-5331 bearing serial number
16238282K
Item 28:
One Laptop Toshiba Satellite
U205-S5057 bearing serial
number 17040828H
Item 30:
One external hard drive LACIE
bearing serial number
JJ86708J60054QR
Item 31:
One external hard disk LACIE
bearing serial number
SJHHRDMH
Item 32:
One USB thumb drive
SANDISK SDCZ6-2048RB
bearing serial number
BE0707AAFB
Item 33:
One USB thumb drive Cruzer
Micro 2 GB bearing serial
number 33
Item 34:
One USB thumb drive
KINSTONCN J02907 04223-
3171002F
A literate person would know that you can't prove FARC knew before the raid all serial numbers of all equipment they had there and exactly what was on each of them simply by posting the serial numbers of the said equipment. Sure, they might know the serial numbers now, but unless they knew them in advance it's rather unlikely this did any good to them.
Literacy and supporting Chavez are indeed mutually exclusive.
McHrozni
lol they sure knew the serial numbers before, when you buy a computer, on your bill that is also needed for garanty, the serial number is printed on it.
same for hard drives and USB sticks.
another ad hom is noted.
DC
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they say Venezuela should stick to the Constitution, that Constitution you claimed was made by Chavez and his thugs.
so you also agree now that the 1999 Constitution of Venezuela is a good one, that would ensure the independence of the courts?
btw, how are supreme court justices apointed in your country?
by open public competitions ?
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In one of the 14 proposals, yes. Did you read the other 13? Proposals 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 are very telling indeed.
Learn to read, then read the report. It's very informative.
A constitution by itself can't ensure anything. It's just some text, after all. Appropriately upholding the constitution, however, would.
Why would that be relevant?
McHrozni
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sure a constitution must be acted upon. they have to follow the Constitution in order to ensure the things in the Constitution, and this wasnt alawys the Case in Venezuelam thats what the report says.
it would be relevant in order to know how it also can be done, i dont know from what country you come from, maybe you got a good system that would be good for Venezuela.
You seem to think that what one man in FARC knew, all FARC knew. Sure, the people who operated these computers, the ones who were present during the raid, possibly captured or killed, might have known the serial numbers and the content of the computers. The problem is not all are able to communicate with FARC right now. Prove the FARC high command knew all of this information.
Don't try it too hard, by the way. The task is indeed impossible.
Secondly, I didn't mention that before, but it's way more relevant: providing the evidence to the public outside of a trial would compromise all judges or juries in the world and make it impossible to use the evidence in a trial. Why would they show the evidence, if that would mean they couldn't use it in a trial?
McHrozni