Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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Our own sources directly involved in the case that know her and have spoken to her.

Can you provide a source more reliable then Preston & Spezi?
 
HumanityBlues said:
Except they were recording everything else.
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It may seem to be facetious but bear with me for a moment: We have to be careful with what was recorded when. Because it has to do with the change in status and the change in focus.
So the wiretap was done to all people connected to Meredith? Not specifically targeted at Amanda and Raffaele? How unusual is that? Standard procedure in homicide?
The bugging of the cells can only have happened after Raffaele and Amanda became suspects. Was it legal? Was it a deviation from standard practice?
What I am trying to establish is whether what was done is something curious or just "business as usual". (Which we may disagree with, for example I'm not particularly thrilled about bugging discussions between suspects and their lawyers, in Germany that would get LE in a big pile of poo.)

It looks like the statements of Bene and Lumumba are ambiguous at best without further information. How about "We can't really say, so let's move on"?
 
Moss said:
The sources for the statements of Bene and Lumumba about being hit would be very helpful if you can provide them. I'd like to take a look at them. As for Lumumba I seem to recall that he allegedly said he never said that? If so a link to that would also be great.
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Douglas Preston has Bene's story in the afterword to his book, The Monster of Florence.

Patrick Lumumba's description of his interrogation can be found here.

Lumumba did later retract the story, but that may have been on the advice of his lawyers. The Perugia prosecutor has a habit of suing people who disagree with him. Preston and Spezi were both sued. Bene was charged with "causing public alarm" after publishing an article about the strange behavior of a drug dealer on the night Meredith was murdered. Amanda Knox was charged with criminal defamation for claiming that a policewoman hit her. Amanda's parents were charged with criminal defamation for statements they made in this interview. Amanda and Raffaele's lawyers have been sued. As was a journalist working for Oggi magazine. Fiction writer Joe Cottonwood was sued for calling Mignini an "intellectually dishonest bully". Mignini even tried to file a suit against an American newspaper for quoting someone who said Mignini was "mentally unstable".
 
HumanityBlues said:
No, I just find it rather curious that everyone and their mother in Italy gets sued for defamation in connection with this case--so I would understand if Patrick is hit, why he would think twice about stating it publicly. So I can understand why Bene would say the conversation never happened. I don't think Spezi made up that conversation. It seems like it's pretty common in Italy to say one thing publicly to get it out there and the pretend you never said it.
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The Sunday Mail isn't 'in' Italy. And in the case of the parents being sued, it isn't the paper that reported their words that is charged but the parents for making the claim. Therefore, if anyone would be sued iy would be Patrick Lumumba, but he's not being sued because he's gone on record multiple times saying he never said it.

It doesn't really matter what you think, does it?
 
maybe the police should be fired

Fulcanelli said:
He didn't testify he did. He testified he told 'someone' to call them in. Doesn't mean it happened. What is clear is that Amanda was under the impression she didn't have to go in and that she went because she wanted to go and din't want to be at home alone.
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So the police are insubordinate? That is risible.
 
Fulcanelli said:
The Sunday Mail isn't 'in' Italy. And in the case of the parents being sued, it isn't the paper that reported their words that is charged but the parents for making the claim. Therefore, if anyone would be sued iy would be Patrick Lumumba, but he's not being sued because he's gone on record multiple times saying he never said it.

It doesn't really matter what you think, does it?
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The West Seattle Herald isn't in Italy either.

"Therefore, if anyone would be sued i would be Patrick Lumumba, but he's not being sued because he's gone on record multiple times saying he never said it. "

Good choice on his part.
 
Kestrel said:
Douglas Preston has Bene's story in the afterword to his book, The Monster of Florence.
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Yeah, the afterword which magically only appeared in this fiction writer's book 'after' he got involved in the Kercher case and he'd joined the FOA. Strange that. One wonders that if any of it is true, why it never appeared in the original version of his book.

Preston wasn't sued. When has Preston ever appeared in an Italian court?

Where's the suit on Cottonwood, has he received it? Has this American paper received the suit?
 
Fulcanelli said:
Yeah, the afterword which magically only appeared in this fiction writer's book 'after' he got involved in the Kercher case and he'd joined the FOA. Strange that. One wonders that if any of it is true, why it never appeared in the original version of his book.

Preston wasn't sued. When has Preston ever appeared in an Italian court?

Where's the suit on Cottonwood, has he received it? Has this American paper received the suit?
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Cottonwood wasn't sued for anything written in an American paper. He was sued for a quote in an Italian newspaper. I don't even think he writes for a newspaper. Visit his website.
 
go read Frank's report

Fulcanelli said:
How did they lie about not asking to interview Amanda when Amanda herself says they didn't ask her? Is Amanda also telling lies then?

What bleach receipt?
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With respect to the bleach receipt, besides the citation I gave in #6730, Barbie Nadeau's book mentions this. The receipt was never introduced at the trial, AFAIK. The police rebuked Amanda for being there after the fact, according to Frank's report. Therefore, even if the police failed to tell Amanda that she was required to come in, they should have known it was Giobbi's order that she should. And rebuking her under those circumstances is dishonest, no matter how you spin it.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Good choice on his part.
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Or just the simple truth. And it's clear it is. He also was quoted in the same article as saying he fired Amanda from Le Chic and he also said that wasn't true either. He had no reason to do that for fear of being charged with any kind of defamation, so the only reason for saying it wasn't true is because it wasn't true. Therefore, that indicates that the Sunday Mail in that interview embellished the story with numerous things that were not true. In addition, the Sunday Mail has on many occasions in the past that are not true, yet I know of no time Patrick has ever told a lie. Therefore, Patrick is this most credible party on this matter.
 
Fulcanelli said:
Or just the simple truth. And it's clear it is. He also was quoted in the same article as saying he fired Amanda from Le Chic and he also said that wasn't true either. He had no reason to do that for fear of being charged with any kind of defamation, so the only reason for saying it wasn't true is because it wasn't true. Therefore, that indicates that the Sunday Mail in that interview embellished the story with numerous things that were not true. In addition, the Sunday Mail has on many occasions in the past that are not true, yet I know of no time Patrick has ever told a lie. Therefore, Patrick is this most credible party on this matter.
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And when did he say it wasn't true he fired Amanda? Under oath wasn't it?

Also, you chastised me much earlier for not following through on a full out investigation of a stupid allegation of a "rape prank". So did you or anyone else at PMF attempt to contact this reporter?
 
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halides1 said:
With respect to the bleach receipt, besides the citation I gave in #6730, Barbie Nadeau's book mentions this. The receipt was never introduced at the trial, AFAIK. The police rebuked Amanda for being there after the fact, according to Frank's report. Therefore, even if the police failed to tell Amanda that she was required to come in, they should have known it was Giobbi's order that she should. And rebuking her under those circumstances is dishonest, no matter how you spin it.
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Barbie Nadeau is not the police, she's Barbie Nadeau. Did you not know?

The police didn't rebuke Amanda for coming in. They complained on the stand that Amanda and Raffaele were always together and they could never get either of them alone, but Amanda was not rebuked. Using the term 'rebuked' is spin.
 
HumanityBlues said:
And when did he say it wasn't true he fired Amanda? Under oath wasn't it?

Also, you chastised me much earlier for not following through on a full out investigation of a stupid allegation of a "rape prank". So did you or anyone else at PMF attempt to contact this reporter?
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In the same TV interviews where he said it wasn't true he'd been hit. He was asked about both those things because both those things were in the Sunday Mail article.

In regard to our sources at PMF...I will say that we have our sources.
 
Fulcanelli said:
In the same TV interviews where he said it wasn't true he'd been hit. He was asked about both those things because both those things were in the Sunday Mail article.

In regard to our sources at PMF...I will say that we have our sources.
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Well if you know something about this author that we don't, please indulge us.
 
halides1 said:
So the police are insubordinate? That is risible.
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If the instruction was issued it is quite clearly not risible to say that the police were "insubordinate". Giobbi said he wanted them both interviewed together, but they were separated as soon as they arrived. So whatever the explanation they were not following this instruction.
 
rebuked

Fulcanelli said:
Barbie Nadeau is not the police, she's Barbie Nadeau. Did you not know?

The police didn't rebuke Amanda for coming in. They complained on the stand that Amanda and Raffaele were always together and they could never get either of them alone, but Amanda was not rebuked. Using the term 'rebuked' is spin.
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The Times article I cited identified the police as the source of information about the bleach receipt.

"Well, it wasn't true. Giobbi, chief of Direzione Centrale Anticrimine of Rome, said today in court that on the evening of the 5th he gave the order to bring Amanda and Raffaele together at the police station. Remember how many times Amanda was rebuked for having gone when she wasn't supposed to? Remember how many shocks she had one after the other? Rebuked for having gone there, rebuked for not remembering things, convinced thatRaffaele was accusing her, and who knows what else."

Using the word "rebuked" is not spinning, it is quoting Frank Sfarzo.

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/05/giobbi-i-gave-order.html
 
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