Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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DOC said:
And some say that our Western Civilization would be quite different and much worse if Christ never came. On second thought some have said that there might not even be a Western Civilization if Christ never came. Read the Book "What if Jesus had never been born". It is actually quite scary what might have been if Christ was never born.
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Yes, what did the Romans ever do for us?
 
Elizabeth I said:
kmortis said:
Evidence for why we know the N/T writers were telling the truth
or
The Nightmare Before Easter​

Written by
the JREF Repitoire​
Starring:
DOC as DOC
These boots as DOC's Stunt Double
Akhenaten as Yul Brenner as Ramses
Lothian as Hokulele
Cleon as Akhenaten
kmortis as joobz
fire troll from WoW as kmortis
paximperium as God
Sir William Ramsay as paximerium as God
carlitos as Norman Geisler
Elizabeth I as the Spunky, hard hitting, yet sexy girl reporter (aka Gwennie)
Lucian as Luke, the World's Greatest HistoriantmHokulele as Thomas "Super Christian" Jefferson
Helen as the Evidence aka the character not present in this movie
Donald Rumsfeld as Pilate
Colin Firth as the Spunky, hard hitting, yet sexy girl reporter's love interest.
Robbie Coltrane as Jewish Elder #1
Wolrab as Wolrabrel and Gospel Author
joobz as Logic
and Simon as Appeal to Authority​


Narrated by Stephen Fry
Produced by Tim Burton
Directed by Donald Rumsfeld Rob Zombie​

Test Audience:
jond​


I think I got everyone.​
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This just cries out for opening titles a la Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
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Post #13000, unless someone beats me to it. I have to learn Swedish so I can do it properly, so I'll need some time.

I'll just give my friend Anita a call.
 
DOC said:
Actually they can be more powerful than miracles. There is ample evidence that the NT has changed thousands of lives for the better.

And some say that our Western Civilisation would be quite different and much worse if Christ never came. On second thought some have said that there might not even be a Western Civilisation if Christ never came. Read the Book "What if Jesus had never been born". It is actually quite scary what might have been if Christ was never born.

http://www.amazon.com/What-Jesus-Never-Been-Born/dp/0785271783
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DOC said:
Of course there were some atrocities on both sides. And tribal warfare was in existence long before the Europeans came.

Here is a site that lists some of the ways we are better off because Christ came. And thus this increases the likelihood the NT writers were telling the truth because it doesn't make sense for something that was made up by liars and deceivers to have this kind of positive effect on the world

http://suzyred.com/jesus.html
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Doc, you hare turning into a spambot.

I suggest that you read the following extract from a recent judgement in the UK very carefully, quite a few times until you understand it. It explains why we are getting nowhere with this thread.

What "evidence" signifies depends heavily on context. To a literalist, any primary fact – for example, that following chiropractic intervention a patient's condition improved – may be evidence of a secondary fact, here that chiropractic works. To anyone (and not only a scientist) concerned with the establishment of dependable generalisations about cause and effect, such primary information is as worthless as evidence of the secondary fact as its converse would be.​

You are the literalist in the example.

We are the people concerned with the establishment of dependable generalisations about cause and effect.

Your primary information "Christ came" is worthless as evidence of the secondary facts "we are better off" & "Western Civilisation" just at the converse would be "Christians have murdered in the name of Christ through the ages" & "3rd world Christian countries".

Unless you can show cause and effect, your evidence is worthless. The O.P. is classic example where there is no link between the primary facts "NT authors wouldn't write embarrassing details about themselves" and the secondary fact "Jesus is the son of God"*



* Not the term fact is used loosely for Geisler's arguments.
 
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Doc,

This thread is titled "Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth?"

Can you help me with one particular part? Son of God: Virgin birth. What evidence do we have that Mary was a virgin and the Holy spirit was the father of her son?

Seems to me this is a fundamental part of Christianity. If Jesus was just another preacher the whole thing is founded on a lie. There must be some fairly robust evidence somewhere.

The gospel writers obviously weren't there at the birth, so what evidence is there?

Note: I don't care about Stars, Sheppards, Kings, the census, Bethlehem, mangers etc. What evidence is there that his birth was unique in that a Virgin gave birth?
 
Well, if you change your mind, I knöw ävvärything there is to knöw abooot mööööse:p (And thanks, I'm just worried that it might make my behind look a bit big...)

And Lothian, om jag sa att du har en vacker anka, skulle du då hålla det emot mig?
 
MooseBite.jpg
 
kmortis said:
Evidence for why we know the N/T writers were telling the truth
or
The Nightmare Before Easter​

Written by
the JREF Repitoire​
Starring:
DOC as DOC
These boots as DOC's Stunt Double
Akhenaten as Yul Brenner as Ramses
Lothian as Hokulele
Cleon as Akhenaten
kmortis as joobz
fire troll from WoW as kmortis
paximperium as God
Sir William Ramsay as paximerium as God
carlitos as Norman Geisler
Elizabeth I as the Spunky, hard hitting, yet sexy girl reporter (aka Gwennie)
Lucian as Luke, the World's Greatest HistoriantmHokulele as Thomas "Super Christian" Jefferson
Helen as the Evidence aka the character not present in this movie
Donald Rumsfeld as Pilate
Colin Firth as the Spunky, hard hitting, yet sexy girl reporter's love interest.
Robbie Coltrane as Jewish Elder #1
Wolrab as Wolrabrel and Gospel Author
joobz as Logic
and Simon as Appeal to Authority​


Narrated by Stephen Fry
Produced by Tim Burton
Directed by Donald Rumsfeld Rob Zombie​

Test Audience:
jond​


I think I got everyone.​
Click to expand...

So I'm Evidence, great part! And I'm not type cast either, good. I'm not to appear, am I? Alright, I suppose someone has to not do that. But I was thinking, with all that time on my hands, I could be Mr Firth's personal assitant. You know, help him change his clothes, mop his brow if he gets all hot and sweaty, and so on. All those arduous tasks. And if Mr Fry needs a listener, I would be prepared to take that on as well.

No no, don't thank me. Only trying to do my duty.
 
DOC said:
Actually they can be more powerful than miracles.
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Indeed.

1) Miracles don't exist.
2) Words do.
3) Therefore, words can be more powerful than miracles.

How nice of you to NOT actually counter what I said.

There is ample evidence that the NT has changed thousands of lives for the better.
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Harry Potter has changed thousands of lives for the better, so what's your point ?

And some say that our Western Civilization would be quite different and much worse if Christ never came.
Click to expand...

How is that evidence that the words are true ?

On second thought some have said that there might not even be a Western Civilization if Christ never came.
Click to expand...

Considering that "western civilization" started under Zeus, I seriously doubt that.

Read the Book "What if Jesus had never been born". It is actually quite scary what might have been if Christ was never born.
Click to expand...

I refuse to take such speculation as authoritative. We have no idea what would've happened in that case.
 
kmortis said:
Evidence for why we know the N/T writers were telling the truth
or
The Nightmare Before Easter​

Written by
the JREF Repitoire​
Starring:
DOC as DOC
These boots as DOC's Stunt Double
Akhenaten as Yul Brenner as Ramses
Lothian as Hokulele
Cleon as Akhenaten
kmortis as joobz
fire troll from WoW as kmortis
paximperium as God
Sir William Ramsay as paximerium as God
carlitos as Norman Geisler
Elizabeth I as the Spunky, hard hitting, yet sexy girl reporter (aka Gwennie)
Lucian as Luke, the World's Greatest HistoriantmHokulele as Thomas "Super Christian" Jefferson
Helen as the Evidence aka the character not present in this movie
Donald Rumsfeld as Pilate
Colin Firth as the Spunky, hard hitting, yet sexy girl reporter's love interest.
Robbie Coltrane as Jewish Elder #1
Wolrab as Wolrabrel and Gospel Author
joobz as Logic
and Simon as Appeal to Authority​


Narrated by Stephen Fry
Produced by Tim Burton
Directed by Donald Rumsfeld Rob Zombie​

Test Audience:
jond​


I think I got everyone.​
Click to expand...


Akhenaten 47:1-4


1 Verily I say unto thee that I have this day petitioned He from whom all great things arty art given unto us which creepst and crawlst.

2 Stray Cat be his name, and mighty be his power.

3 Shouldst thy faith hold strong, and thy patient will be such that bide'st thy time to wait thou wilt, it may'st yet come to pass that the wonder of the ages be upon thee, and thine eyes shall behold such glory that thou hast, until this time, mere hope and sometime promise held.

4 In the name of the Aten, so shall it be written, so shall it be done.​
 
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