God is an outdated concept

[154]

Demonstrate your critical thinking.

Refute the irrefutable.

Irrefutably Documented

To fully appreciate the remarkable significance of the following article, it is essential to realize that the Book of Daniel, as part of the Old Testament, was translated into Greek prior to 270 B.C., almost three centuries before Christ was born. This is a well-established fact of secular history.1

The Septuagint

After his conquest of the Babylonian Empire, Alexander the Great promoted the Greek language throughout the known world, and thus almost everyone - including the Jews - spoke Greek. Hebrew fell into disuse, being reserved primarily for ceremonial purposes (somewhat analogous to the use of Latin among Roman Catholics).

In order to make the Jewish Scriptures (what we call the Old Testament) available to the average Jewish reader, a project was undertaken under the sponsorship of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285-246 B.C.) to translate the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek. Seventy scholars were commissioned to complete this work and their result is known as the "Septuagint" ("70") translation. (This is often abbreviated "LXX" and is so shown on the diagram.)

The Book of Daniel is actually one of the most authenticated books of the Old Testament, historically and archaeologically, but this is a convenient shortcut for our purposes here. It is critical to realize that the Book of Daniel existed in documented form almost three centuries before Christ was born.

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rule 4. See this for further clarification. The rest of this quote is available at the link below.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/552/

 

[Towlie]

So parts of the Gospel stories were contrived to agree with Old Testament prophesy?

Yes, we knew that. What's your point?

 

[Complexity]

So much for my aspirations of 154-followerhood.

Let's face it - I'd make a lousy follower. I'm a cat rather than a dog.

Ah, but it was fun while it lasted.

 

[tsig]

I would generally agree with this exception:

Until we are able to extend life indefinitely and "conquer death" ... the idea of a god awaiting the greeting of their consciousness/soul/spirit/etc after their death will probably continue to be a concept that even rational people might be inclined to hang onto for various reasons.

As long as they don't think too hard about it.

 

[154]

But wait you mocking skeptics! There's more! Now demonstrate the worthiness of your brilliant critical thinking and dismiss this:

Ezekiel's 430 Days
by Chuck Missler

Prophetic Simile

The Prophet Ezekiel was called upon to undertake a number of strange performances, one of which was to lie on his side for a total of 430 days. 1 Each day was expressly to represent a year of judgment against the nation.

A number of commentators acknowledge a difficulty which appears when one attempts to apply this specifically to Israel's history. Seventy of the years would seem to be accounted for in the Babylonian Captivity, but that leaves 360 years (430 minus 70) unaccounted for. 2 The 360 years do not seem to fit any period of their history.

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rule 4. See this for further clarification. The rest of this quote is available at the link below.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/276/print/

 

[Wowbagger]

Welcome, Nursedan! I agree with that. I also think about how we are all born atheists. Nobody is born a god/s believer. It has to be indoctrinated or learned somehow.

You know, I used to think this way. But, now I am not so sure.

I think the basic ingredients for believing in a God are somewhat innate, and are part of our evolutionary baggage. If someone was not indoctrinated or taught about God, at all, I think the default mode of a typical human would be speculation that a god, or many gods, are controlling things in their lives.

Of course, the specifics would have to be learned: The God of the Bible is not, specifically, innate. Only the general framework to believe is there, to be filled in by whatever the culture happens to fill into there. (With, perhaps, some limits and caveats, etc.)

Perhaps babies, who are not fully mentally developed, are literally atheists. But, then again, they could be said to be a-just-about-anything-ists, also. The basic ingredients for gods and (more generally) magical thinking, develop over time. And, they usually only get worse, over time, even into old age. Unless, of course, one is trained out of them. And, it usually does not come easy. At least not as easy as giving into religion.

 

[Complexity]

But wait you mocking skeptics! There's more! Now demonstrate the worthiness of your brilliant critical thinking and dismiss this:

Dismiss it?

I won't even bother to read it.

Consider it dismissed.

 

[154]

Dismiss it?
I won't even bother to read it.
Consider it dismissed.

You fool no one but yourself. You will not because you cannot refute the irrefutable, and then you would be left with the most uncomfortable cognitive dissonance.

Not surprisingly, homosexuals are often the most virulent God-haters.

Shake your impotent fist at the Almighty Creator. Enjoy your days among the living. How many days do you have left?
http://www.mydeathspace.com/article-list.aspx

 

[Towlie]

Refute the irrefutable.

Troll the untrollable.

 

[Complexity]

You fool no one but yourself. You will not because you cannot refute the irrefutable, and then you would be left with the most uncomfortable cognitive dissonance.

Not surprisingly, homosexuals are often the most virulent God-haters.

Shake your impotent fist at the Almighty Creator. Enjoy your days among the living. How many days do you have left?
http://www.mydeathspace.com/article-list.aspx

Don't be silly, and don't take it too personally. Life is far too short to read what that you shovel out. Your stuff is nearly indistinguishable from the drivel of millions of other religious types. Not surprising, since you're all infested with similar yucky memes.

Peddle your silliness elsewhere.

By the way, if your 'god' actually did exist, I would oppose it with everything I could muster, for I consider your conception of 'god' to be evil. Fortunately, you're living in a nasty delusion and I can enjoy other pursuits.

Hope you are offended by my continued existence and the pleasure that I take therein.

 

[154]

Don't be silly, and don't take it too personally.

I'm not being silly and I don't take it personally at all. I'm more than used to it and expect it.

Life is far too short to read what that you shovel out.

The length of your life has nothing to do with your objection.

Your stuff is nearly indistinguishable from the drivel of millions of other religious types. Not surprising, since you're all infested with similar yucky memes.

The evidence of verifiable and observable mathematical precision is drivel? Uh-huh.

Peddle your silliness elsewhere.

You're so scientific, objective and open-minded.

By the way, if your 'god' actually did exist, I would oppose it with everything I could muster, for I consider your conception of 'god' to be evil. Fortunately, you're living in a nasty delusion and I can enjoy other pursuits.

Oh, He's real. Is this the best of your muster? Jesus Christ is Incarnate Goodness. "Woe to those that call good evil and evil good." But you will have your chance to tell Him face-to-face, who knows, maybe 50 years from now, maybe 10 years from now, maybe even tomorrow.

Hope you are offended by my continued existence and the pleasure that I take therein.

You hope I'm offended? I'm not, but I know you are. You are but another example in fulfillment:

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

Romans 1:21-32

You get to have it just as you wish. As You Will. Your Will be done.

Would you throw me to the lions?

 

[Complexity]

Thanks for reminding me of why I despise your ilk.

May you all disappear without a trace.

Friggin' rapture is long overdue (I wish that bizarre belief were true. Alas!).

 

[Sun Countess]

The first siege of Nebuchadnezzar, in 606 B.C., began the "Servitude of the Nation," which lasted until the summer of 537 B.C. If July 23, 537 B.C. was the time of their release

:

The third siege of Nebuchad-nezzar, in 587 B.C., began the "Desolations of Jerusalem," which lasted until 518 B.C. If August 16, 518 B.C. was the completion of the walls of Jerusalem, then:

I bow before the awesome mathematical precision known as retrofitting.

 

[154]

I bow before the awesome mathematical precision known as retrofitting.

Every knee shall bow.

Your objection was addressed, but I know honest inquiry fits nowhere within your "appearance of intelligence."

It should be borne in mind that the "starting" dates are not known precisely to the day. More research needs to be done. But this certainly seems provocative enough to ponder.

except for those who are not open to such consideration because they are committed to a pre-determined conclusion, in which case, skepticism has nothing to do with it.

You haven't even begun to consider the absurdity of the countless requirements necessary to account for such "retrofitting."

 

[D'rok]

You know, I used to think this way. But, now I am not so sure.

I agree.

I think the basic ingredients for believing in a God are somewhat innate, and are part of our evolutionary baggage. If someone was not indoctrinated or taught about God, at all, I think the default mode of a typical human would be speculation that a god, or many gods, are controlling things in their lives.

Not too hard to imagine why, given how helpless we are and how completely we are in the hands of our caregivers when we are infants.

Of course, the specifics would have to be learned: The God of the Bible is not, specifically, innate. Only the general framework to believe is there, to be filled in by whatever the culture happens to fill into there. (With, perhaps, some limits and caveats, etc.)

Perhaps babies, who are not fully mentally developed, are literally atheists. But, then again, they could be said to be a-just-about-anything-ists, also. The basic ingredients for gods and (more generally) magical thinking, develop over time. And, they usually only get worse, over time, even into old age. Unless, of course, one is trained out of them. And, it usually does not come easy. At least not as easy as giving into religion.

Yup. But it can be done - we can overcome ourselves. We don't need to remain infants.

Or, we could lack the strength of character to do so and end up as virulent sociopaths, an example of which is so clearly on display in this thread.

 

[Sun Countess]

Every knee shall bow.

:shivers:

except for those who are not open to such consideration because they are committed to a pre-determined conclusion, in which case, skepticism has nothing to do with it.

Ha! The only pre-determined conclusion was the one made by the people who came up with that nonsense. Picking numbers, using the calendars and year lengths that suit them, and even picking specific dates (July 23, August 16) when none were given in the prophesy. Who had the pre-determined conclusion again?

You haven't even begun to consider the absurdity of the countless requirements necessary to account for such "retrofitting."

All it takes is some determination to pick out some numbers from a book of fiction, and mangle them enough to match them to dates which are assumed to be significant from the viewpoint of the people doing the mangling.

Now if Daniel had buried a sealed envelope in a time capsule, with a "Don't open before 1948" sticker, and he correctly named the exact date that Israel would again become a nation, I would be impressed.

Numerology nonsense doesn't impress me.

 

[Wowbagger]

Yup. But it can be done - we can overcome ourselves. We don't need to remain infants.

True. I probably could have added a line like that to my last post, here.

 

[154]

Numerology nonsense doesn't impress me.

Me neither.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology

 

[jiggeryqua]

'God is an outdated concept'

Not round here - at the various online forums I frequent, and in my offline social circle, work environment and community activism, gods are noticeable by their absence. Except here, where some science-minded atheists seem to devote a disproportionate amount of their time to discussing something they insist doesn't exist.

I said it elsewhere, I'll say it again - if the message of no-god is so important to you, spreading it here is mere self-aggrandisement. If it's important to the world, picket churches, mosques and temples - knock on doors and introduce people to Dawkins - stand on street corners and let everyone know what everyone should know.

 

[Hokulele]

On May 14, 1948, the nation Israel was reestablished on the world scene. A remarkable coincidence.

Because modern Jews and Christians, just like the writers of the New Testament, would never try to force events to match Old Testament prophecies.