9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[VonKleist]

You can be a tad pedantic, mister. I gave you an answer by implication in #3655.

Again: the H-word believers stick with their 6M Jews perished.
This can be broken down in Exterminations Camps (gassing, deprivation, hunger, typhus), Gettho's and EG. I don't know why you keep whining why I should know exactly what you guys believe. I gave you the Wikipedia link stating 4.4M or what was it people who died in the camps. The traditionalists probably admit the truth contained in the Sterbebuecher (270T or os people killed), so I would assume that you guys believe that 4.4M - 0,27M people were gassed. If you have more informed opinions, be my guest.

OK, so it was just a number you pulled out of your ass.

K thx.

 

[Saggy]

[I asked you whether you thought that the numbers you have quoted here refer to total deaths in those camps rather than deaths of Jews by gassing.]

I explained to you that the numbers were pure fantasy, not supported by any data, unless you count train schedules .

To make it clear I provided an example, the Auschwitz hoax estimate of 4+ million compared to the records showing approximately 100,000. A ration of 40/1 ....

Here's another .... from the redoubtable Jewish Virtual library ....

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/maidanek.html

"It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates were gassed at Majdanek"

And now even Zionist sources like wiki are saying "79,000 people died there".

The holohoax numbers are pure phantasmagoria. They have NO connection with reality.

 

[TSR]

TSR studiously ignores confessions of his own people at the WC that 96% of the killings were carried out by the Lithuanias.

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I have no people @ WC, and have never even used them as a source.
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He is hell bent on putting the full blame on the Germans. He certainly does not want to talk about how his own ilk killed 10% of the local population during the proces of installing communism.

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You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about my ilk, for someone who knows nothing about me.

And why don't *you* want to talk about how Jäger very explicitly takes credit for *these* murders, and the fact that so many children were killed in cold blood?

Did they *personally* kill 10%^ of *anything*?
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You see, there is no real problem killing hundreds of thousands of Lithuanian Christian Goyem. That is the reasoning of the TSR's of this world.

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Either support this accusation with specific quotes from me on the subject, retract, or be reported.
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That's why he refuses to reveal his own identity. It would expose him.

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Expose me as what? someone you cannot debate without resorting to baseless personal attacks?

You have an hour to document or retract.
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I have no problem saying that I am Dutch. TSR does not like to confess he is Jewish. Because I would directly link him to the largest mass murderers in history.

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Off topic as well.

The subject here, which you are so desperate to distract from, is the Holocaust.

Now: is the Jäger report authentic or not.

If not, please explain why not.
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[TSR]

They have NO connection with reality.

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You mean like your lies about Dachau?

Run away, brave aryan warrior -- run away....
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[VonKleist]

[I asked you whether you thought that the numbers you have quoted here refer to total deaths in those camps rather than deaths of Jews by gassing.]

I explained to you that the numbers were pure fantasy, not supported by any data, unless you count train schedules .

To make it clear I provided an example, the Auschwitz hoax estimate of 4+ million compared to the records showing approximately 100,000. A ration of 40/1 ....

Um, actually Humpty, I wasn't talking to you.

The example you gave was this one? So you're agreeing with it again now?

 

[Uzzy]

I explained to you that the numbers were pure fantasy, not supported by any data, unless you count train schedules .

To make it clear I provided an example, the Auschwitz hoax estimate of 4+ million compared to the records showing approximately 100,000. A ration of 40/1 ....

The holohoax numbers are pure phantasmagoria. They have NO connection with reality.

And yet, the article you linked to previously said that 900,000 Jews were killed immediately upon entering Auschwitz. No one since the 1950's has suggested that 4+ million died at Auschwitz, by the way. But of course, you continously ignore that. Just as you ignore the two very interesting pieces of evidence I presented earlier.

 

[Saggy]

The Jager 'report' appears to be a transparent fraud. One page of numbers like

"1312 Jews, 4602 Jewesses,1609 Jewish children "

as if they counted 1312 Jews, 4602 Jewesses, 1609 children .... idiotic !

for a total of over 100,000 Jews, all killed by 8-10 SS men !

"Following the formation of a raiding squad under the command of SS-Obersturmfuhrer Hamman and 8-10 reliable men from the Einsatzkommando the following actions were conducted in cooperation with Lithuanian partisans: "

As it stands, it's just a piece of paper, allegedly found by the Soviets 15 years after the war. So, what is the corroboration? Where are the bodies?

 

[Saggy]

[No one since the 1950's has suggested that 4+ million died at Auschwitz, by the way. ]

Pay attention. Yehuda Bauer, i.e. Yad Vashem, said the best estimate was 3.5 million in '81.

 

[TSR]

"Following the formation of a raiding squad under the command of SS-Obersturmfuhrer Hamman and 8-10 reliable men from the Einsatzkommando the following actions were conducted in cooperation with Lithuanian partisans: "

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See? This is what happens when you don't actually read the documents involved, and depend on your denier buddies to spoon feed you, Saggy.

Three lines above what you quoted, Jäger specifically states: "Executions carried out by Lithuanian partisans on my instructions and under my command," whose numbers are not specified.

And it's 137000 *people* not just Jews.

So, other than personal incredulity, have you got any reason to suspect it is not authentic?

Maybe you can find that evidence in the non-existent plubming pipes in Dachau?
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[TSR]

[No one since the 1950's has suggested that 4+ million died at Auschwitz, by the way. ]

Pay attention. Yehuda Bauer, i.e. Yad Vashem, said the best estimate was 3.5 million in '81.

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And you *do* realize that 3.5M is not 4+M?
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[Uzzy]

[No one since the 1950's has suggested that 4+ million died at Auschwitz, by the way. ]

Pay attention. Yehuda Bauer, i.e. Yad Vashem, said the best estimate was 3.5 million in '81.

Which still isn't 4+ million, is it? Furthermore, Yehuda Bauer suggested 3.5 million in 1979, in his foreward to Filip Muller's book 'Eyewitness Auschwitz.' He later revised down his estimate to 1.6 Million in the 1980's. But hey, the four million variant is an irrelevence. The figure is now more or less settled at around 1.1 to 1.3 million, after quite a bit of historical debate based on facts, which is how these things are done.

 

[TSR]

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Jäger specifically states: "Executions carried out by Lithuanian partisans on my instructions and under my command," whose numbers are not specified.
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Which is also why 9/11's "it was all the Lithuanians" distraction is just that.
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[Saggy]

[So, other than personal incredulity, have you got any reason to suspect it is not authentic?]

As stated, the idea that a few SS men and a ragtag group of partisans would count 3822 Jews, 4148 Jewesses, and 1502 children before shooting them appears absurd on its face.

And, normally when there is a murder we expect to see a body. If there are no graves and no bodies, then I think the document is probably a fraud.

Without substantial corroboration, it is just piece of paper. Easily produced by the KGB.

 

[TSR]

[So, other than personal incredulity, have you got any reason to suspect it is not authentic?]

As stated, the idea that a few SS men and a ragtag group of partisans would count 3822 Jews, 4148 Jewesses, and 1502 children before shooting them appears absurd on its face.

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And you can factually support your description of the partisans as "rag-tag?"

No?

Maybe they could have washed up in the showers at Dachau -- if you hadn't been lying about those.


Given that you were, why should we believe you have any special knowledge about the provisioning and arming of of these troops?
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And, normally when there is a murder we expect to see a body. If there are no graves and no bodies, then I think the document is probably a fraud.

Without substantial corroboration, it is just piece of paper. Easily produced by the KGB.

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So, it is just your personal incredulity.

You know how much that is worth around here...

Tell you what: review "U.S. v. Stelmokas" 100 F.3rd 302 (3rd Cir.; 1996) and see if you can dispute what the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania had to say about this report.
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[9/11-investigator]

I have no people @ WC, and have never even used them as a source.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about my ilk, for someone who knows nothing about me.

And why don't *you* want to talk about how Jäger very explicitly takes credit for *these* murders, and the fact that so many children were killed in cold blood?

Did they *personally* kill 10%^ of *anything*?

Either support this accusation with specific quotes from me on the subject, retract, or be reported.

Expose me as what? someone you cannot debate without resorting to baseless personal attacks?

You have an hour to document or retract.

Oops, TSR is imposing a 1 hour ultimatum at 2.00 am local Dutch time.
Nowhere am I attacking you personally, I am just tickling you to make you say from what ethnic angle you are conducting this expose. Since you are only defending Jewish interests it is not too far fetched to assume that you are Jewish, right? And if you are consistently avoiding mentioning or downplaying victims from the other side one might get suspicious about your sincerity regarding their fate. But if you openly state that you deplore the Lithuanian victims made by Jewish initiated communism than I am more that willing to retract my presumption.

The subject here, which you are so desperate to distract from, is the Holocaust.

LOL. What a ridiculous accusation against the main contributor to this H-word thread.

Now: is the Jäger report authentic or not. If not, please explain why not.

Until yesterday night I never heard of this report. I am truly grateful that you brought it under my attention. For me this is largely a study thread. If you don't mind I postpone my judgment about the authenticity a bit.

 

[Saggy]

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So, it is just your personal incredulity.


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It is not just my personal incredulity .... here is what a real investigation of a mass murder looks like ... note the difference ... on one hand, the Jager report, we have a piece of paper and nothing else, on the other .... the massacre by the NKVD at Vinnitsa, we have an investigation by the Nazis and an international team of forensics experts ....

http://incogman.wordpress.com/2009/12/19/the-genocide-at-vinnitsa/

 

[TSR]

Oops, TSR is imposing a 1 hour ultimatum at 2.00 am local Dutch time.

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Moments after the post where you attacked me.
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Nowhere am I attacking you personally, I am just tickling you to make you say from what ethnic angle you are conducting this expose. Since you are only defending Jewish interests it is not too far fetched to assume that you are Jewish, right?

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Since I do not "only defend Jewish interests," no it is not reasonable. Nor is it relevant to the facts which I post, from which you run like a rabbit.
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And if you are consistently avoiding mentioning or downplaying victims from the other side one might get suspicious about your sincerity regarding their fate. But if you openly state that you deplore the Lithuanian victims made by Jewish initiated communism than I am more that willing to retract my presumption.

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Well, since these "other victims" are irrelevant to the question of whether the Holocaust happened or not, it is not surprizing that I do not mention them in this thread. If you feel like discussing them, do feel free to open a thread in which such discussion will be on topic.

But don't forget to document these vicitims to your own standards: links + numbers, mass graves, independant investigations and so forth.
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Until yesterday night I never heard of this report. I am truly grateful that you brought it under my attention. For me this is largely a study thread. If you don't mind I postpone my judgment about the authenticity a bit.

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Ah, so you are ignorant of one of the most important documents supporting the historicity of the Holocaust, just as you have been shown to ignorant of of many of the details, confirming once again that your opposition is not a search for truth, but a crusade to rehabilitate your Nazi heroes.
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[9/11-investigator]

OK, so it was just a number you pulled out of your ass.

K thx.

No, I pulled it from Wikipedia and this Arolson doc.

Read #3699 and let it slowly sink in. And if you still don't understand I will it explain to you again, this time even more slowly.

We are here to help you.

 

[TSR]

It is not just my personal incredulity ....

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That's all you've offered so far, yes. WEll, that and lies about the gas chamber @ Dachau

Why *do* you keep running from that that, hmmmn?
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here is what a real investigation of a mass murder looks like ... note the difference ... on one hand, the Jager report, we have a piece of paper and nothing else, on the other .... the massacre by the NKVD at Vinnitsa, we have an investigation by the Nazis and an international team of forensics experts

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No, on the other hand, we have what William Pierce *claims* about an investigation without offering any sources. Funny how ready you are to accept his claims at face value -- but then, he's a neo-nazi so agrees with you. Where is this mass grave? Where are the autopsies? Remember, by your own standards, no documents from Germany or the Ukraine can be accepted since they would have had both the motive and opportunity to lie about it.

The ball's in your court, Saggy
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[VonKleist]

No, I pulled it from Wikipedia and this Arolson doc.

Read #3699 and let it slowly sink in. And if you still don't understand I will it explain to you again, this time even more slowly.

We are here to help you.

Nice try.