Lisa Simpson
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It was my understanding that his mom was willing to pay her own way to act as his chaperon.
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13 year old prodigies, and all that
- Thread starter daenku32
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Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
Well, that kills all the objections* based on him being unchaperoned. Any word on the outcome? Has the school relented?
*Please don't let that stop the bashing of the precocious 13-year-old, though. Posters may continue.
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dropzone
Master Poster
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As far as I'm concerned, yup.
Having once been a 13-yr-old on the incoming of this, but also as the father of several one-time 13-yr-old girls, nah, they're still fair game. Someone needs to slap them down when they start getting uppity and it's easier on their future sexuality if they can blame guys of their fathers' generation, because in only a year or two the blame will devolve on them as unworthy partners. (somewhat creepy)
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Sungha Jung was nine years old when recorded these two, he is the best guitar player I have ever heard.
Living on a prayer
Come together
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calebprime
Penultimate Amazing
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- Jul 5, 2006
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Listening to Sungha Jung: Living on a Prayer
His time isn't that good--groove not that strong--there are lots of little glitches in his time, but it's not rubato, they're just glitches.
No dynamics
Heavy processing--reverb and compression.
Tune itself is unsubtle and played by rote. Not musically difficult, not even technically that difficult.
When he does pull-offs, they are botched at around 1:28
Not really that musical-sounding, for above reasons, and because he's playing by rote. The variations in his tempo are not musical-sounding.
Definitely not one of the best guitarists--heck, he's merely pretty good, for nine.
Come Together: I listened to 30 sec, lost interest. He doesn't have a feel for what he's playing. If he keeps playing, he might be worth listening to in a few years--maybe when he's 13 or so...
This has no bearing on the larger discussion. The kid at UConn was pretty mature for his age--if an article in the Boston Globe was to be believed.
His time isn't that good--groove not that strong--there are lots of little glitches in his time, but it's not rubato, they're just glitches.
No dynamics
Heavy processing--reverb and compression.
Tune itself is unsubtle and played by rote. Not musically difficult, not even technically that difficult.
When he does pull-offs, they are botched at around 1:28
Not really that musical-sounding, for above reasons, and because he's playing by rote. The variations in his tempo are not musical-sounding.
Definitely not one of the best guitarists--heck, he's merely pretty good, for nine.
Come Together: I listened to 30 sec, lost interest. He doesn't have a feel for what he's playing. If he keeps playing, he might be worth listening to in a few years--maybe when he's 13 or so...
This has no bearing on the larger discussion. The kid at UConn was pretty mature for his age--if an article in the Boston Globe was to be believed.
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readme.txt
Critical Thinker
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3point14
Pi
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I'm still interested in how much of this prodigy's level is based on interest in school vs the speed at which he is capable of learning. If someone is highly interested in a subject, they are more likely to learn than someone who is not. So, does he have any interests outside of school, and if not, how much of an impact does that make compared to a situation in which he would actually have other interest as well. These are the questions I'm interest in. So much of "common sense" about school is about grades correlating to inherent intelligence, as in someone "having what it takes" or not.
Maybe my interest is simply because when I was that age I was simply a C-average student, but since I restarted my college track at 29 I might even have a shot at graduate school, even with much greater outside distractions & conflicts. In personal experience it's been amazing how much of a difference something as simple as interest in the subject does. But also had make me wonder if I "wasted" something a decade ago.
I've now got kids of my own, and I guess I don't want them to quit when they get Cs.
Maybe my interest is simply because when I was that age I was simply a C-average student, but since I restarted my college track at 29 I might even have a shot at graduate school, even with much greater outside distractions & conflicts. In personal experience it's been amazing how much of a difference something as simple as interest in the subject does. But also had make me wonder if I "wasted" something a decade ago.
I've now got kids of my own, and I guess I don't want them to quit when they get Cs.
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theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Not really.
How does her chaperoning the kid absolve the University of its responsibilities to participants in the program? What legal and ethical requirements are there, for the University to commission a chaperone for one of its students? Does the mother meet those requirements? Would she agree to those requirements? Is it really worth it for the University to jump through whatever additional regulatory or legal hoops are necessary to commission a chaperone?
I doubt it's so simple as the mother saying "I'll chaperone! Problem solved!". I wouldn't be surprised if she thought it was that simple, though. Wouldn't be surprised if her son did, either. I mean, there are people right here on this board that think it's that simple.
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
No it doesn't, at all. My college has an auto shop. If you're in the garage area, you are required to wear safety glasses and nonslip shoes. If you don't have them, you don't go in the garage - period; you can't get around the rules by promising not to sue if you get hurt. There's no waiver of liability to sign. You follow the rules, or you don't go in.
Same thing.
Rasmus
Philosopher
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Are these preriquisites known in advance, though? Or would I have to apply first and then be met with a rejection I had no way of anticipating based on the known rules?
I think that is the crucial difference.
At my University, I knew ahead of time what the conditions were for a course. If the course the boy wants to have has age mentioned as a requirement or even just specific approval of the teacher, I have no problem with what the university did.
Tim Thompson
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Child Prodigies
Just my one anecdotal tale, but a counter example. Nothing in your description of what the typical 13 year old is supposed to be like was applicable in this case.
I don't think this is a fair assessment of someone you have not met. When I was a grad student I worked with a 13 year old who was taking university physics courses at night because junior high school was too boring (they did not have all the AP classes back then that are available now). She was never anything like your description. Just as mature as any adult I ever met and more mature than many.
Just my one anecdotal tale, but a counter example. Nothing in your description of what the typical 13 year old is supposed to be like was applicable in this case.
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
I see above where it was about the difficulty and expense of hiring a full time babysitter, according to poster.... Checkmite.
Now it's about "rules"? No. My statement was correct. The fact that his mother has offered to chaperone him because of the age issue removes any objections based on "him not being chaperoned".
So now you've found some other reason to object. That sort of flows directly from my statement, doesn't it?
I don't think there's any such rule, frankly. They've never encountered this situation before and are adjusting as they go along. Can anyone cite the regulation that says that persons under X years of age, otherwise qualified for the program, are not allowed to attend the study abroad optional credit?
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
See above.
Leaping to conclusions.
What are the legal issues? Where are the rules? Again, there were posters saying that a person of such an age would need a chaperone and she offered to be a chaperone. End of THAT worry. Now we want to worry about the legal requirements for a chaperone? His mom isn't qualified to be a chaperone? Gawd, what do they do at night at home? Does the University send out a professional tucker inner?
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
You completely missed the point.
The "rules" may not allow an unqualified or uninsured third party (such as one's mother) to chaperone; so whether she's offered or not makes no difference.
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
I think the biggest indicator of the maturity level of the kid this thread deals with is the fact that his inability to take this one single course is so devastating to his grand "plans" that he's simply unable to adjust, and wants to sue to force the University to accommodate his wants rather than adapt to an unexpected change.
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
Since the "rules" apparently don't allow an underage student to participate, it seems unlikely that they would have "rules" defining the qualifications for a chaperon for underage students to participate. Don't you think?
Maybe they could ask an expert for advice. Someone with proven experience in the field. Say, someone like the legal guardian of a 13 year old prodigy who's going to university. Someone like that might even be able to recommend a qualified volunteer.
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
What is it that you feel reflects badly on his maturity? The part where he pursues established channels and traditional mechanisms to seek redress for legitimate grievances, or the part where he offers reasonable solutions in an effort to address the stated concerns of the school?
I can see where this kid is coming from, but I think ultimately the university is in the right here.
On one hand, the kid is taking college level courses and doing remarkably well. He shows strong motivation and a willingness to pursue his goals despite obstacles. He has addressed the school's initial presentation of their concerns and provided what he feels are suitable alternative options (Mom as chaparone, or credit for a similar trip through another organization).
That said, the college continues to have legitimate concerns about allowing him to participate in this trip. He is 13, and that creates additional liability for the college even if his mother comes along. While he is intellectually advanced, that doesn't necessarily mean anything about his social development, or his ability to manage behavior appropriately during the increased independence of the study abroad experience. As Checkmite points out, this kid demonstrates some significant cognitive rigidity, which does reflect poorly on his ability to cope in the wild world of study abroad. Because ultimately the school does carry liability for its students who study abroad (both for the student, and for the reputation of the school), it is the right of the study abroad office and professor leading the group as to whether or not they are willing to accept the risk associated with bringing this boy along.
It seems to me the most reasonable, least liability fraught solution is for the kid to go on his NSF-funded trip to South Africa. He can use the data and experiences he gathers there to work on his thesis, and take alternative courses at the university to satisfy his academic requirements and increase the breadth of his academic experience.
On one hand, the kid is taking college level courses and doing remarkably well. He shows strong motivation and a willingness to pursue his goals despite obstacles. He has addressed the school's initial presentation of their concerns and provided what he feels are suitable alternative options (Mom as chaparone, or credit for a similar trip through another organization).
That said, the college continues to have legitimate concerns about allowing him to participate in this trip. He is 13, and that creates additional liability for the college even if his mother comes along. While he is intellectually advanced, that doesn't necessarily mean anything about his social development, or his ability to manage behavior appropriately during the increased independence of the study abroad experience. As Checkmite points out, this kid demonstrates some significant cognitive rigidity, which does reflect poorly on his ability to cope in the wild world of study abroad. Because ultimately the school does carry liability for its students who study abroad (both for the student, and for the reputation of the school), it is the right of the study abroad office and professor leading the group as to whether or not they are willing to accept the risk associated with bringing this boy along.
It seems to me the most reasonable, least liability fraught solution is for the kid to go on his NSF-funded trip to South Africa. He can use the data and experiences he gathers there to work on his thesis, and take alternative courses at the university to satisfy his academic requirements and increase the breadth of his academic experience.
Doghouse Reilly
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So many of the replies have mentioned that schools are "liable" for their study-abroad students. To what extent is this even true? And in what sense? I seriously doubt that if a student is abroad in a program of this nature, and they have some sort of accident, that the school is somehow liable. How would they be liable if this kid gets hit by a car in South Africa when they are not even liable for him getting hit by a car in the U.S?