The Marijuana Conspiracy

fullflavormenthol said:
Well then provide proof, and don't worry about doing it here. You can go ahead and contact a moderator, and they can verify. Nevertheless I am not going to just take your word for it. Because you are trying to claim that the THC level, including IN THE LEAVES, of hemp cannot be increased through selective breeding. You have no response for that, but to pull out pathetic litte things like "sigh" and "my gosh" and "OK (deep breath...)". You asked for a reason, and reasons are given.

And you may not be a kook, but you sure as hell are acting like one with your insistance on some shadowy conspiracy.

But if it turns out you have the Ph.D. I will 100% drop the SIDE ISSUE, and focus on further pointing out that the main crux of your argument about hemp not being viable because of a lack of technology because it is illegal despite the fact that it is legal in other countries but still regulated even though other regulated crops still find a way to be viable...has been debunked.
Click to expand...

Um. OK. What are your qualifications that we should run through a moderator? What reason do you have to doubt me? I have no reason to doubt your qualifications. If you have followed me for any time (well it has been a long time, and I have posted off and on) you would know this.

How do I go about doing this to your satisfaction? Should I scan my doctorate? How will I know that you will buy this? What difference will it make? I'll PM you my information if you like, no biggie to me as long as it is private. I have nothing to hide.

EDIT. BTW, you can reply through using the "Go Advanced" button and consolidate your posts to me into one.
Click to expand...

Hmm... OK, I'll try that.

MolBasser
 
fullflavormenthol said:
Well than please explain to me the biological mechanism that renders it impossible to breed higher THC yields into hemp. I was not aware that doing such was impossible.
Click to expand...

I never said it was impossible. Of course it is possible. It isn't practical though.

1. It would take decades of breeding.
2. The method of cultivation is completely different and would be obvious.
3. There is no point as drug cultivars are readily available.

I thought this wasn't about drugs though?

Can we get this straight? Is it, or isn't it about drugs?

Straight up. Yes or no. Then we can discuss why or why not this matters.

MolBasser
 
Because you are trying to claim that the THC level, including IN THE LEAVES, of hemp cannot be increased through selective breeding.
Click to expand...

Please quote where I made that statement.

Seriously. Read what I have posted, and freaking try to understand...

:bangs head on wall:

MolBasser
 
MolBasser said:
Um. OK. What are your qualifications that we should run through a moderator? What reason do you have to doubt me? I have no reason to doubt your qualifications. If you have followed me for any time (well it has been a long time, and I have posted off and on) you would know this.
Click to expand...

You are making an argument from authority, I am not. There is the difference. I make it a point not to accept everything I read from random people claiming to have advanced degrees.

MolBasser said:
I never said it was impossible. Of course it is possible. It isn't practical though.

1. It would take decades of breeding.
2. The method of cultivation is completely different and would be obvious.
3. There is no point as drug cultivars are readily available.

I thought this wasn't about drugs though?

Can we get this straight? Is it, or isn't it about drugs?

Straight up. Yes or no. Then we can discuss why or why not this matters.

MolBasser
Click to expand...
Thanks for the qualifications, and I will drop the side issue. Even though you tried to play it off as impossible and honesty you are very, very rude about it.

No it isn't about drugs, and again I am giving you one possible reason why the law banning Cannabis doesn't have an exception here. The law as it stands doesn't deal with cultivation methods, just a ban of the genus known as Cannabis. That is all I was ever saying.

So can we move beyond the "sigh", "my gosh", and "OK (deep breath...)" nonsense then?

What I and other people want to know is, why is technology an issue when there are numerous countries in which hemp is on hand to work with? It seems the argument that the "technology isn't there yet, because it is illegal" doesn't fly when it comes to the issue of hemp processes in countries like Canada. And no, "it is regulated", isn't an excuse when every other plant grown for commercial use is also regulated.

Of course all this is a non-issue against the reason that there are just better materials out there to be used which is why companies just don't bother with it.

And for yet another time...I don't think it should be illegal, any cannabis for that matter.
 
MolBasser said:
Please quote where I made that statement.

Seriously. Read what I have posted, and freaking try to understand...

:bangs head on wall:

MolBasser
Click to expand...

Seriously..knock off the condescending remarks or I will ignore you. I am getting really tired of it.
 
fullflavormenthol said:
You are making an argument from authority, I am not. There is the difference. I make it a point not to accept everything I read from random people claiming to have advanced degrees.
Click to expand...

OK. I'm not so cynical. I sent you via PM all the relevant info. How about yours?

Thanks for the qualifications, and I will drop the side issue. Even though you tried to play it off as impossible and honesty you are very, very rude about it.
Click to expand...

That is crap. I NEVER once said it was impossible. I always stated that it was IMPRACTACLE. and it is. It makes no sense as an argument. Rude? Demanding qualifications in a condescending manner isn't rude either, is it?

No it isn't about drugs, and again I am giving you one possible reason why the law banning Cannabis doesn't have an exception here. The law as it stands doesn't deal with cultivation methods, just a ban of the genus known as Cannabis. That is all I was ever saying.
Click to expand...

Yes. It is about drugs. I have no idea how you can make this statement and then go on about how the plant can be bred into a drug variety. Seriously. How do you wrap that around your brain?

So can we move beyond the "sigh", "my gosh", and "OK (deep breath...)" nonsense then?
Click to expand...
As soon as you get past the "give your qualifications, I don't believe you, you're just a stupid hippie posting on a forum", yeah, we can get past it.

What I and other people want to know is, why is technology an issue when there are numerous countries in which hemp is on hand to work with? It seems the argument that the "technology isn't there yet, because it is illegal" doesn't fly when it comes to the issue of hemp processes in countries like Canada. And no, "it is regulated", isn't an excuse when every other plant grown for commercial use is also regulated.
Click to expand...

Of course it is regulated. The farmers in canada can't use their own seed. The products they make are subject to rigorous and expensive analysis, and it can't be grown in the US. The regulations are different for hemp and hemp products. Do your homework before you look down on me.

Of course all this is a non-issue against the reason that there are just better materials out there to be used which is why companies just don't bother with it.

And for yet another time...I don't think it should be illegal, any cannabis for that matter.
Click to expand...

So why do you argue so vociferously? We could both just shake hands and say "you know, this is a stupid rule that should be repealed emmediately" and be done with it.

MolBasser
 
fullflavormenthol said:
Seriously..knock off the condescending remarks or I will ignore you. I am getting really tired of it.
Click to expand...

Stop lying about what I have posted and I will. I'm tired of that too.

Its a two way street. You treat me nicely, you get treated nicely in return.

You scoff at me and lie about what I have posted, then I post in a appropriate manner in return.

Fair enough?

ETA: and quite frankly, I could care less if you ignore me.

MolBasser
 
Last edited:
Why is it that some people can't wrap their heads around the notion that the government banned cannabis, and hemp was caught in the crossfire? Why is it people that support the legalize it movement have to resort to condescending attitudes and say "impractical" in the middle of a paragraph calling you stupid which leads to them having to finally admit that yes hemp could be made into a drug eventually, which lends something to why it is still banned or regulated in some countries?

But you know...."sigh"..."my gosh"..."OK (deep breath...)", and "bangs head into wall"...forbid that the unwashed masses not believe in the kook CT's about why cannabis is really illegal, believe me cause I am going for my MA in a unrelated field to botany!
 
Last edited:
fullflavormenthol said:
Why is it that some people can't wrap their heads around the notion that the government banned cannabis, and hemp was caught in the crossfire? We is it people that support the legalize it movement have to resort to condescending attitudes and say "impractical" in the middle of a paragraph calling you stupid which leads to them having to finally admit that yes hemp could be made into a drug eventually, which lends something to why it is still banned or regulated in some countries? Why is it that I eventually have to put these kind of people on ignore?
Click to expand...

Um, because it is impractical? It would make no sense? No one would do it? Especially when they don't "Finally Admit" but have been discussing it the whole time?

Holy crap, and you bitch at me for being condescending.

You obviously have absolutely no clue about the plant you are arguing about, nor do you have a clue about its agriculture.

Why don't you just sit in the corner while the grown ups talk about this?

I don't know, but I look forward to a discussion with someone who can get beyond themselves and not cry when someone asks them to put up or shut up when they make an argument from authority or try to place hemp in the same category as marijuana like the OP did and like another person did.
Click to expand...

I have completely put up. You have ignored it and attempted to talk down to me. I'm not crying. I am making my point and you are ignoring it and lying about what I am posting. What argument from authority are you talking about.

All the potential benefits that I have layed out are in state sponsored reports. Which I have mentioned.

ALL I have done is question the governments motive in keeping the plant illegal. You are the one that has his panties in a wad.

MolBasser
 
elbe said:
I don't honestly believe that anyone in the US government with any real power cares one way or the other about hemp. They just aren't going to go out of their way to make hemp legal if there's no public or industrial pressure for it.

Knowing it's illegal and not caring isn't the same as actively making sure it stays illegal.
Click to expand...

Of course they care, or it would be legal.

You can't be this naive about how the government works, can you?

It is a direct product of the Drug War.

That much should be obvious.

MolBasser
 
elbe said:
I don't honestly believe that anyone in the US government with any real power cares one way or the other about hemp. They just aren't going to go out of their way to make hemp legal if there's no public or industrial pressure for it.

Knowing it's illegal and not caring isn't the same as actively making sure it stays illegal.
Click to expand...
Exactly, for the most part it is just a non-issue. Companies could import hemp fiber if they wanted to, and they just don't. Why? Because so many companies have gotten really good at what they do.

Now I would imagine hemp might have a future as a product added to the mix, and time will tell on that one. Perhaps hemp fiber could be added to paper to create something. I don't know. Just right now no one has really seen the need even where the stuff is legal to grow.

In many ways the market has decided I guess, and that decision doesn't seem to sit well with some people.
 
fullflavormenthol said:
Exactly, for the most part it is just a non-issue. Companies could import hemp fiber if they wanted to, and they just don't. Why? Because so many companies have gotten really good at what they do.

Now I would imagine hemp might have a future as a product added to the mix, and time will tell on that one. Perhaps hemp fiber could be added to paper to create something. I don't know. Just right now no one has really seen the need even where the stuff is legal to grow.

In many ways the market has decided I guess, and that decision doesn't seem to sit well with some people.
Click to expand...

This is, as usual, quite ludicrous. The market is not open and thus we do not know the possibilities.

If you read the state sponsored reports, there are several states that want the restrictions lifted and the product grown. But, you ignore that fact.

From the Kentucky report:

· Legal prohibition of Cannabis cultivation is the
overriding obstacle to reintroduction of fiber hemp
production in Kentucky. Significant progress on
agronomics, marketing, or infrastructure development
is unlikely, and of relatively little importance,
unless legal issues are resolved. Legislative action
would be required at both the state and federal
level. Such consideration would likely receive
strong diverse reactions from both private and public
sectors.

Which has been my point all along if you have actually read my posts. Nothing is going to happen until the legal restrictions are lifted. People would like to grow it, but there is no incentive to because of the Drug Warriors.



MolBasser
 
Last edited:
jaydeehess said:
Very true. So why do you think that the hemp industry is championed mostly by those who want MJ legal as a drug and not by a wider cross section of society?
Click to expand...
Because it is an attempt to break down the laws against Cannabis. Had the law been specific to Cannabis Sativa than all of this would have been a non-issue, and hemp would likely have just been a niche crop that wasn't often used. Or breed into a THC potent form and sold as a marijuana substitute by now; but of course that is neither here nor there.

Honestly I will go with the breaking down of existing laws against cannabis, just like the medical marijuana crowd which is too often populated by people who could care less about those who could legitimately benefit from medical marijuana; and are simply focused on the recreational use. It is sad, because if they were honest I would be behind them to simply allow for the legalization of cannabis in general. Of course with regulations on it as with tobacco and alcohol.
 
Last edited:
MolBasser said:
Of course they care, or it would be legal.

You can't be this naive about how the government works, can you?

It is a direct product of the Drug War.

That much should be obvious.

MolBasser
Click to expand...

They once cared, that was a while ago. The US culture has changed considerably over the 20th century and I seriously don't believe anyone in power cares now. They don't care, but why risk losing any popular support over a non-issue - and that's all hemp is right now, a non-issue.

You can't be this naive to think there's a conspiracy against hemp, can you?
 
Last edited:
fullflavormenthol said:
Now I would imagine hemp might have a future as a product added to the mix, and time will tell on that one. Perhaps hemp fiber could be added to paper to create something. I don't know. Just right now no one has really seen the need even where the stuff is legal to grow.

In many ways the market has decided I guess, and that decision doesn't seem to sit well with some people.
Click to expand...

Yeah, as long as industries aren't pushing for it the politicians don't have any reason to actively do anything about it, other than, maybe, some lip service.

I think the best thing the hemp proponents can do is encourage heavier industrial use, spouting conspiracy BS is just going to further marginalize their cause.
 
elbe said:
...They don't care, but why risk any losing popular support over a non-issue - and that's all hemp is right now, a non-issue.
Click to expand...

Very true. If Canadian printers, for example, were turning out super cheap hemp paper than United States printers would be looking into it as an alternative and pushing Congress to allow it. Right now it would mean changing the law that banned marijuana which would get spinned by their political opponents as soft on drugs, not true mind you, but a risk they would have to take in changing the law; all for a non-issue.

elbe said:
Yeah, as long as industries aren't pushing for it the politicians don't have any reason to actively do anything about it, other than, maybe, some lip service.

I think the best thing the hemp proponents can do is encourage heavier industrial use, spouting conspiracy BS is just going to further marginalize their cause.
Click to expand...

Exactly. We (U.S.) import so much stuff from hemp producing countries that it really has had time to develop, but it hasn't because it hasn't shown itself as cost effective.

What the CT BS does is make everyday people step back and ask, "Why are the "legalize it" so focused on this", which really does hurt their cause as you have written.
 
Last edited:
elbe said:
They once cared, that was a while ago. The US culture has changed considerably over the 20th century and I seriously don't believe anyone in power cared now. They don't care, but why risk any losing popular support over a non-issue - and that's all hemp is right now, a non-issue.

You can't be this naive to think there's a conspiracy against hemp, can you?
Click to expand...

Of course there is a conspiracy. If they didn't care they would let it go. Several states have requested it and the feds say "no".

The public being stupid (not knowing the difference between hemp and marijuana) is a poor reason for public policy. Just let them know what is going on.

However, the Drug Warriors will not let that happen. Oh, no. Can't grow a plant for fiber or seeds because if you try really hard, and take decades of time that ruin will your crop for its stated purpose, you might be able to grow something close to what other guys are already pumping out of their indoor grow rooms.....

LOL.

It is farcical.

MolBasser
 
Last edited:
MolBasser said:
Of course there is a conspiracy. If they didn't care they would let it go. Several states have requested it and the feds say "no".
Click to expand...

That's an odd interpretation. If I don't care about something I'm unlikely to do anything about it. If the politicians don't care about this non-issue why should they go through the trouble of passing a bill to legalize hemp? (I don't know the specific legal issues involved with this, it could be either a legalization bill or repealing part of the original ban).

Again, the politicians don't want to risk any popular support (from all the people who associate hemp with marijuana) by drafting and passing a bill to legalize it. They aren't trying to keep it down, I doubt they are even thinking about hemp aside from when they are hassled by the "legalize it" crowd.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom