Daylightstar
Philosopher
Remirol?
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VFF to Appear on Rational Alchemy
- Thread starter Uncayimmy
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- anita ikonen
Daylightstar
Philosopher
The people on the show have there opinions as well, but that doesn't mean the show was a success.
In what way was the show a success, according to you?
Thank you.
remirol
Senior Wrangler
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This was a serious question? Really?
You quote-mined a single line out of my entire original post (which had nothing to do with my opinion of the content of the show) and presumed that it was either relevant or that I would respond to it?
Huh. Remarkable. Let me know how that works out for you.
I wanted to have her on the show and give her free reign to talk about her beliefs. We did that, hence it was a success. I think the next show will be a success too. And the one before it certainly was.
Daylightstar
Philosopher
I didn't think the question was that difficult.
Daylightstar
Philosopher
That was the success? That was the accomplishment?
That's not very ambitious.
It's ofcourse fine to get her on the show, but some meaningful content would have been great.
This show was more like a celebration of VfF's beliefs.
However, I enjoyed the story about the rocking of the cruiseship and the rocking for a little while after the cruise. That was interesting.
It seems you're being a bit cryptic about the subject, which is making me curious. That's excellent promotion. What is the subject and what are the publications? Maybe a new thread about it would be good.
You have a third blog about skepticism? You should add it to your profile. So, did the RA staff learn about you from the outside world? How did they prepare themselves to interview?
I posted quotes that indicate that at times, like all of us, she is less than "very kind" in her public dealings with people.
Actually, Geek Goddess, you are woefully ignorant of the story behind me and VFF, and at this point your igonrance appears to be deliberate. For a while I was accused of being too kind and "indulging" her. It was only after being repeatedly lied to, harassed, stalked and threatened did my behavior towards her change. My brand of skepticism requires people look at the entire history.
In the eyes of the law it is, and in spirit what else would you call it?
I have no idea because I can't find anything about it. Perhaps it's buried in threads in Community.
I have writings on other subjects as well. In this case I chose to actively engage someone whom I felt had not only the motivation but the skills and charm to be another Sylvia Browne. You do understand that she traveled and gave lectures under another name, right? And that other woos quoted her as an expert on living on air?
Do you think people like Sylvia start out doing guest appearances on Good Morning, America? Even RSL has commented on the importance of dealing with people like this before they become famous.
LOL! What a creative redefinition of uninformed. You are speaking with authority about a subject with which you are grossly unfamiliar.
Again, you are willfully uninformed. VFF, as I predicted, has used the broadcast and interactions with Jeff Wagg to her advantage. She is using it to give herself credibility. This information is available in this thread for those who have paid attention. That was my major objection. By giving her free reign to spout her beliefs (and lie and mislead), she now has the tacit endorsement of a skeptical podcast and an association with the JREF. Anybody who looks beyond her superficial use of the publicity and listens to the podcast will hear the JREF General Manager and other skeptics suggesting that she have further testing, which is ridiculous.
Most people would be concerned to learn that there are many things they don't know about a subject. I guess you're not one of them.
Don't know if I'd bother, it's just like 'heaven' -- a place where nothing ever happens.
M.
Steven Howard
Graduate Poster
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Do you think she's a Kaz?
She appears to be a young woman with some peculiar ideas. Is she dangerous? Who knows? Her credibility diminishes with the age of the listener. A child might believe her stories. A teenager would already be somewhat skeptical. An adult generally would be gentle and kind. An old fart like me thinks she's funny, in the way that Oprah, Hannity, Popoff, Scientology, ghost hunters, and Communications and Outreach Coordinators are funny.
M.
Geek Goddess
Hot enough to melt 4" rebar
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I don't put a great many things in my profile.
I've been stalked and probably still leave too much out there. The other two blogs are actually the same one, I transferred from one software to another and haven't gotten around to removing the first one. I seldom post there, due to time constraints. I participate in a blog that has several contributors. I also occasionally contribute to SWIFT. In my spare time I run a multi-million dollar division in an energy company.
I don't consider it publishing any more than conversations in a bar are considered public speaking. It's writing, sure, but it is conversation, not essay.
I have no claimed authority about VFF. You are attacking the podcasters on RA for having someone on their show. And you claim the show is beneath you, and that you don't want to be on it. That was what I was interested in. I know little and care less about the guest herself. She's a scam artist, or mentally ill, or both.
Yes, I understand that, you keep repeating it. I got it the first time. I am not disagreeing that this person may spin the interview to her advantage. I came to the thread only because someone pointed out that you had discussed me in context of how guests are chosen.
You know, that doesn't make sense on many levels. Are you concerned about the many things you don't know about a subject? Not being able to list dozens of obscure web sites isn't something I've aspired to. If that makes me *willfully* uninformed, so be it.
zzzzz
I know VFF is not currently a Sylvia Browne. That's not the question. The questions are whether she's can be one and if she's inclined to pursue it. Let's run down her qualifications, shall we?
* Makes paranormal claims that people would pay for? Yep. These including medical diagnosis, healing, and speaking with the dead.
* Is articulate? Yep.
* Is charismatic? Good in front of people? Without a doubt, yes.
* Has actively spread her message? Yep.
* She toured Poland as Alenara the Breatharian giving lectures.
* Alenara's website and lectures have been quoted by other sources on breatharianism.
* VFF has contacted paranormal groups and mainstream science groups offering her services.
* She has contacted Meetup groups, and even strangers on the streets of Charlotte to give readings.
* Is good at self promotion? Yep.
* Just do a Google search to see.
* Has her own YouTube channel.
* Exploited her appearance Rational Alchemy and discussions the JREF's General Manager on her website.
* Offered to provide psychic readings to groups.
* Has posted literally hundreds of thousands of words about herself.
* Has sought payment?
* Offered to sketch fetuses of pregnant women for a fee.
* Offered to do psychic readings for donations.
* Tried for the IIG $50K Challenge.
* Was writing a book at one point.
* Don't know if she was paid for her lectures in Poland, but I'm guessing you don't do multi-day lectures in foreign countries for free.
* Has taken steps to harm those that stand in her way (see RSL's most recent article)? Yep.
* Publicly threatened me with lawsuits and police action.
* Publicly threatened to get a fellow skeptic fired from her job.
* Publicly made accusations of sexual harassment and adultery against me.
* Harassed me by telephone and continues to do so via e-mail.
Am I missing something? Do you not believe there is sufficient reason for concern?
UY, your approach is predicated on people (the "hoi polloi") believing VfF's claims. What makes you think she's any more believable than anyone else making such claims? Is she charismatic? Does she have any evidence?
My take is that were VfF to go the SB route, she would gain some followers, sure, but who are we to prevent that from occurring? I really don't think that we can, to be honest.
I think a better tack to take would be the RSL method of calmly, methodically debunking the patently silly claims VfF makes and letting people make up their own minds -- which they will anyway. After all, most people are more likely to ignore VfF if they, themselves, do the necessary debunking once they've received the information that will help them do that.
You do a good job of providing that information, but, as others are at pains to point out, you come across as somewhat overbearing.
Allow people to find out and decide for themselves. Your site can be invaluable in providing the information people will need to do that, but only if readers feel you're clearly on their side.
M.
What is rational Alchemy? The blog does not define it.
bookitty
Philosopher
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A quick note on the "Alenara the Breatharian" lectures. VFF was 18 (aprox 8 years ago) when this happened. Most teenagers need an adult to book tours for them. We don't even know if this was her idea or if she was a youngster caught up in something that sounded glamorous. She might even have been exploited.
She has not lectured as a Breatharian since. Even though her public appearances would have made her more eligible for the MDC, she never mentioned it. She did make a small handful of posts about living on light, those were debunked and she dropped it.
It is true that she has never publicly renounced Breatharianism. But wanting to ignore some silly thing you did in your teens is hardly malicious.
She has not lectured as a Breatharian since. Even though her public appearances would have made her more eligible for the MDC, she never mentioned it. She did make a small handful of posts about living on light, those were debunked and she dropped it.
It is true that she has never publicly renounced Breatharianism. But wanting to ignore some silly thing you did in your teens is hardly malicious.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
bookitty
Philosopher
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As one of those dead websites that clutter the web. A quick look at the internet archive site shows how little interest VFF had in it after the first rush.
And then there's this from the page that focuses on breatharianism.
http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/breathe_light/breatharianism.html
This page was created April 7 2002
This page was last updated September 16 2004
Last updated June 24 2009
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Surely though, if Ms Ikonen is intending to embark on a new 'career' as a skeptic it would make sense for her to at least take the page down.
It's not a real good look, is it?
It's not a real good look, is it?
wardenclyffe
Master Poster
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I think that's sort of the point, though. VfF is intellectually such a lazy slob that she just leaves her trash all around for everyone to find. If she had any intellectual rigor, she would long ago have figured out what was really going on with her visions.
Ward
ETA: This is why it seems unlikely that she will have a career doing this. She's honestly too sloppy to figure out what to do. As a con-woman, she doesn't have what it takes and as an investigator, she clearly does not have what it takes.
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bookitty
Philosopher
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It's not a good look and taking it down would be prudent. Being sloppy suggests apathy. Implying that a dead website indicates a current interest is exaggeration.