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Iraqi election

Undesired Walrus

Penultimate Amazing
Undesired Walrus
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
11,691
So, Allawi has won the most seats (Although far short to win an overall majority).

What does it mean for Iraq if he becomes PM? I've heard he is secular, which is surely good in such a religously divided country.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
So, Allawi has won the most seats (Although far short to win an overall majority).

What does it mean for Iraq if he becomes PM? I've heard he is secular, which is surely good in such a religously divided country.
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Ba'athist. Pretty clean since 1969. Prior to that? Well if he's to be belived he was a democractic idealist. May have been involved in the 68 coup to some extent. Things are hazy.
 
It shows us something about what the USA achieved -- so far, it can always revert to what it were before -- when we're discussing how candidate X, who narrowly won over the incumbent prime minister, will form his coalition government, probably with the support of the Kurdish party...

...in Iraq, where the usual "election" process is 99.9% of the vote to the dictator du jour, Kurds were used for target practice, and if ever an opposition candidate actually won by mistake, he was sure to "disappear" within a few hours.

So much for the "you can't export democracy to the middle eastern culture" -- which in reality means "such savage brown-skinned people cannot be expected to behave in a civilized way, no use trying" -- "insight" of the New York Times & co.
 
Skeptic said:
So much for the "you can't export democracy to the middle eastern culture" -- which in reality means "such savage brown-skinned people cannot be expected to behave in a civilized way, no use trying" -- "insight" of the New York Times & co.
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Evidence?
 
geni said:
Ba'athist. Pretty clean since 1969. Prior to that? Well if he's to be belived he was a democractic idealist. May have been involved in the 68 coup to some extent. Things are hazy.
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Sort of.

Shi'ia, not Sunni. Baathist until 1971 or so, but opposed to the 1968 coup and anti-Saddam. Nearly killed in an assassination attempt when he refused to return to Iraq.

Likely more secular than most other major candidates.

Regardless, it is unlikely he will be the PM; his victory was not large enough to allow Iraqqiya to form a government without a coalition with at least two of the other three leading parties, and he faces internal opposition to being named to a second premiership. Not impossible he will make PM, but more likely he will settle for President or Speaker and negotiate a middle ground compromise for PM.
 
On Diane Rehm's "international" news hour yesterday, one reporter pointed out that the Iraqis have learned "tough" politics all too quickly.
What with the sitting PM refusing to yeild and claiming vote fraud....

We note today that the sectarian violence continues; a group of men in military uniforms attacked a number of Sunni leaders, killing many.....
 
Bikewer said:
On Diane Rehm's "international" news hour yesterday, one reporter pointed out that the Iraqis have learned "tough" politics all too quickly.
What with the sitting PM refusing to yeild and claiming vote fraud....
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They learned tough politics long before the U.S. arrived and certainly long before these elections. Maliki is not "refusing to yield;" he has engaged in political posturing, from which posture he is already softening. Moreover, he has expressed his complaints only in the media and not at all in the formal process for complaints.


Bikewer said:
We note today that the sectarian violence continues; a group of men in military uniforms attacked a number of Sunni leaders, killing many.....
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The decisive issue isn't that this incident occurred; such things will likely continue for years. What matters is the response. So far it's excellent with the Federal Police leading the investigation (with support from US Forces as requested) and the Iraqi Army providing security at the scene.

Things remain far from perfect but definitely hopeful.
 
Is the President of Iraq a merely ceremonial figure, like in Ireland, Israel etc?

Interesting that they opted for a Parliamentary system. Perhaps they felt coalition governments (With Shia's and Sunni's forced to team up) would be better at stopping sectarian violence.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Is the President of Iraq a merely ceremonial figure, like in Ireland, Israel etc?
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A bit more than that, though exactly how much more is uncertain. Prior to this election there has been a Presidency Council as opposed to a President. Talabani is currently President with Mahdi and Hashimi as deputies. Legislation required approval from all three for ratification. The constitution isn't entirely clear, but it appears the president will have real authority, including the authority to ask the Council of Representatives for a vote of no confidence in the PM.


Undesired Walrus said:
Interesting that they opted for a Parliamentary system. Perhaps they felt coalition governments (With Shia's and Sunni's forced to team up) would be better at stopping sectarian violence.
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That's my guess. That, in addition to the fact that--regardless if they like it or not--they have a long affiliation with all things British.
 
Peephole said:
He's alleged to have murdered people:
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"Alleged" is the operating word here.

Besides, you should be happy, Hussein did the same thing with his political opponents for thirty years, and you wanted to keep him in power.
 
Either you want to depose every single dictator on earth through warfare.

Or you either want to keep them in all in power.

The mindset of a Republican is fantastic.
 
Pardalis said:
Besides, you should be happy, Hussein did the same thing with his political opponents for thirty years, and you wanted to keep him in power.
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Be fair to him. Not wanting to remove Saddam by war and invasion doesn't immediately mean wanting the man to remain in power. It's not so black and white.
 
Peephole said:
Either you want to depose every single dictator on earth through warfare.

Or you either want to keep them in all in power.

The mindset of a Republican is fantastic.
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To quote Undesired Walrus: "It's not so black and white," and pretending it is so does nothing to advance any argument, though it can at times be a wonderful--if hollow--rhetorical device.
 
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