Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've been catching up on this thread and I don't think any reasonable person could now claim that DOC hasn't provided quite incontrovertible evidence that the authors of the New Testament "told the truth" (especially the references from the Jewish scholar Pilar Lofo). Might as well close this thread?
Posted By: Darat



RedHerring.jpg




ETA: I had a side-splittingly funny speech bubble in this post referring to the last time I used a side-splittingly funny speech bubble which broke the thread.

You'll never guess what happened.

Therefore I must ask that readers use a marker pen to draw in their own speech bubbles. Please make them really, really funny, as Nimrod has quite high standards when it comes to this sort of thing.
 
Last edited:
Seriously? This is the best you can do, Darat? Oh, how the mighty have fallen. At one time, your April Fool's japes were the envy of joksters everywhere...well, ok, they could bring a smile to the most humorless those of us who can take a joke were watching Monty Python and already laughing. At least they weren't this transparent.

<sigh> you really should leave the comedy to us professionals, you could pull a muscle or something.

I think it was remarkably brave of him--doesn't the mere thought of coming into this thread bring him out in hives?
 
Being a theist has nothing to do with it if you are presenting logical arguments. I've read some of

Misquoting Truth: A Guide to the Fallacies of Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" (Paperback) by Timothy Paul Jones (Author)

He presents logical arguments in presenting his case. Read the book and then show me something he says that doesn't make sense.
Well, DOC. Your definition of "logical Argument" is once again humorously faulty.
I've read the first thirty some pages. It took until page 31 before even the first argument against Erhman's point was made. The first 30 pages were nothing by exposition of how smart Erhman is and how it was right, but wrong.

On page 31, one is finally presented with a summary of arguments to be made in the book. Unfortunately, even these are so fundementally flawed as to be unsavable from any amount of exposition.

The over arching argument, to which all other arguments function as mainly premises, is The argument is that even though there are errors in the bible, and we do not have original manuscripts, we can still rely on the bibles we have as a reliable source for god's inerrant truth. As stated "The inspired truth of Scripture does not depend on word-for-word agreement among all biblical manuscripts or between parallel accounts of the same event. "


The premises to this argument are:
1.) "I do not believe that one passage of Scripture ever directly contradicts other passages."
2.) "Assuming god DID inspire the original New Testament writings and he protected those writings from error, are the available copies of the new testament manuscripts sufficiently accurate for us to grasp the truth...? I beleive the answer to this question is yes."
3.) "The ancient manuscripts were not copied perfectly. Yet they were copied with enough accuracy for us to comprehend what the original authors intended."
4.) "To the casual reader, Misquoting Jesus could imply that the early copyists were careless and lacking in literary skill."
5.)"So which is it? Have centuries of careless copying tainted the texts beyond recovery? Or are the New testament documents suffiently reliable for us to discover the truth...?


The failures of these premises lie in the following:
To point 1: it's an assertion and one that does not bear out in reality. Indeed, The Jesus birth story is on example that perfectly demonstrates this contradiction. The genealogy of Jesus is another example.
2.) Affirming the consequent.
3.) Affirming the consequent.
4.) Strawman argument. Bart in no way implies that they were merely careless errors. Note the weasel words of "To the casual reader...could imply" this is the height of intellectual dishonesty. This author isn't arguing against Erhman's arguments but the presumed Miss-understanding of Erhman's argument.
5.) False Dichotomy.

So, to summarize, Misquoting truth is loaded with logical fallacies and confused reasoning. Indeed, it even contains a clearly dishonest misrepresentation of Bart's argument as a smoke screen against having to address the actual argument.
 
Strange he didn't mention them, then.

Not really because the gospel account ended with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Or if your a skeptic and want to believe it ended with the death of Jesus. The deaths of the apostles came after the time period he was writing about. If I wrote a book about the life of Harry Truman in 1980. It would not be strange not to mention the death of John Kennedy.
 
Well, DOC. Your definition of "logical Argument" is once again humorously faulty.
I've read the first thirty some pages. It took until page 31 before even the first argument against Erhman's point was made. The first 30 pages were nothing by exposition of how smart Erhman is and how it was right, but wrong.

On page 31, one is finally presented with a summary of arguments to be made in the book. Unfortunately, even these are so fundementally flawed as to be unsavable from any amount of exposition.

The over arching argument, to which all other arguments function as mainly premises, is The argument is that even though there are errors in the bible, and we do not have original manuscripts, we can still rely on the bibles we have as a reliable source for god's inerrant truth. As stated "The inspired truth of Scripture does not depend on word-for-word agreement among all biblical manuscripts or between parallel accounts of the same event. "


The premises to this argument are:
1.) "I do not believe that one passage of Scripture ever directly contradicts other passages."
2.) "Assuming god DID inspire the original New Testament writings and he protected those writings from error, are the available copies of the new testament manuscripts sufficiently accurate for us to grasp the truth...? I beleive the answer to this question is yes."
3.) "The ancient manuscripts were not copied perfectly. Yet they were copied with enough accuracy for us to comprehend what the original authors intended."
4.) "To the casual reader, Misquoting Jesus could imply that the early copyists were careless and lacking in literary skill."
5.)"So which is it? Have centuries of careless copying tainted the texts beyond recovery? Or are the New testament documents suffiently reliable for us to discover the truth...?


The failures of these premises lie in the following:
To point 1: it's an assertion and one that does not bear out in reality. Indeed, The Jesus birth story is on example that perfectly demonstrates this contradiction. The genealogy of Jesus is another example.
2.) Affirming the consequent.
3.) Affirming the consequent.
4.) Strawman argument. Bart in no way implies that they were merely careless errors. Note the weasel words of "To the casual reader...could imply" this is the height of intellectual dishonesty. This author isn't arguing against Erhman's arguments but the presumed Miss-understanding of Erhman's argument.
5.) False Dichotomy.

So, to summarize, Misquoting truth is loaded with logical fallacies and confused reasoning. Indeed, it even contains a clearly dishonest misrepresentation of Bart's argument as a smoke screen against having to address the actual argument.

Nobody is stopping anyone from bringing Erhman's aguments in here and some of them probably have been brought in here. Why don't you list a few a let's take a look at them.
 
Last edited:
Not really because the gospel account ended with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Or if your a skeptic and want to believe it ended with the death of Jesus.
No, it as Mark says it ended with the death of Jesus...and Thomas Jefferson agrees as well.

Are you smarter than Mark or Thomas Jefferson?

The deaths of the apostles came after the time period he was writing about.
What deaths? Oh yeah, those stories.
 
Not really because the gospel account ended with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Or if your a skeptic and want to believe it ended with the death of Jesus. The deaths of the apostles came after the time period he was writing about. If I wrote a book about the life of Harry Truman in 1980. It would not be strange not to mention the death of John Kennedy.
Harry S. Truman in 1980
by Ken Mortis
In 1980, Harry S Truman was dead. He had been dead for eight years at that point, having lived nine years more than John F. Kennedy.

The End.

Personally, I think it'd be strange to be writing a book about Harry S Truman living in 1980.

Anyone else notice that his initals are also HST?
 
Last edited:
Not really because the gospel account ended with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Or if your a skeptic and want to believe it ended with the death of Jesus. The deaths of the apostles came after the time period he was writing about. If I wrote a book about the life of Harry Truman in 1980. It would not be strange not to mention the death of John Kennedy.

When did Kennedy come back to life?
 
Nobody is stopping anyone from bring Erhman's aguments in here and some of them probably have been brought in here. Why don't you list a few a let's take a look at them.

"From bringing Erhman's arguments" and, indeed, they have been brought up. But Erhman is not really presenting arguments as presenting the current academic consensi consensus.
 
No, it as Mark says it ended with the death of Jesus...and Thomas Jefferson agrees as well.

Are you smarter than Mark or Thomas Jefferson?

So then you must agree with Jefferson's opinion on the Jewish Faith and Morals?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom