Moderated Iron sun with Aether batteries...

[Toke]

This looks like just another example of knowledge getting in the way of a great idea.

 

[brantc]

Wow, brantc has reached another lowest point in understanding basic physics, I did not think it could go any lower after the MRx discussion.

Hey, you were missing in action. If you want to go back and finish that discussion, I'm game.

You did not provide anything that says my ideas were wrong.
I provided you with papers that show that flux ropes and plasmoids exist in the magnetotail.
I also provided sources that show that Flux transfer events are associated with "reconnection" and the modulation of plasma flow into the magnetosphere through flux ropes.

I also asked you to provide an example of a flux rope with no plasma flowing through it(detected by CLUSTER) to support your idea of a "bundle of magnetic field lines".

The flux rope comes first then the "reconnection".

 

[DazzaD]

So my model is pretty different(woo) for all you skeps out there but dont go calling me names, ask real questions.

An aether powered iron sun is necessary for the activity that we see on the solar surface.

An obvious question.

What makes you think an aether powered iron sun is necessary for the activity that we see on the solar surface?

 

[Ziggurat]

An obvious question.

What makes you think an aether powered iron sun is necessary for the activity that we see on the solar surface?

The even more obvious question, which he still hasn't answered, is what the hell "aether power" is.

 

[DazzaD]

The even more obvious question, which he still hasn't answered, is what the hell "aether power" is.

Oh yes indeed... but the necessary bit stands out a mile... Im hoping that the answer to that will clearly qualify what aether power is, because it is clearly 'necessary'....

before we get into alternate theories it might be an idea to clarify just why an alternative to the well known and best tested theory is even 'necessary'.

Then we can talk about "faeries"

 

[brantc]

I doubt that brantc has looked through a spectrometer in his life.

Actually we have a Jobin Yvon MicroHr in the lab. Its not exactly the same as a telescope spec but the principles are the same. We look at water. Specifically sonoluminescence. This is what I do for work. I'm not that good at it but we have others here that have done ground breaking work in this field.

Here is an article to familiarize yourself with.
SONOLUMINESCENCE: NATURE’S SMALLEST BLACKBODY
http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0009/0009057.pdf


Here is a pretty thorough review for a more in depth understanding.

Single-bubble sonoluminescence
Michael P. Brenner
Division of Engineering and Applied Sciences, Harvard University, Cambridge,
Massachusetts 02138
http://www.seas.harvard.edu/brenner/Single_bubble.pdf

 

[Jack by the hedge]

1. This falling coronal rain is a falling solid that is cooling back down to the temperature of solid iron, 1000C, from almost 10,000F at the top of the loops, which happens to be ...... 5,537.77778 degrees Celsius.

I'm waiting to hear how you maintain a layer at 1,000°C inside a shell of material which is at 5,537°C.

 

[dafydd]

I'm waiting to hear how you maintain a layer at 1,000°C inside a shell of material which is at 5,537°C.

Anything is possible in lala land.

 

[brantc]

Then it is not about our Sun or any other star in this universe. It must be some delusional sun in your head

The photosphere is at a temperature of 5777 K. Any iron surface below it must be hotter. Only someone totally ignorant of physics would thnk that a iron surface at > 5777 K is solid.

This is dumber than MM's Iron Sun (he does not think that the iron surface is solid - he thinks it is a "crust").

Can you show that the solid iron surface in your idea is thermodynamically possible?
That is the solid iron surface either

• would not have heated up to the temperature of the surrounding layers in the last ~4 billion years and vaporized or
• the temperature of the surrounding layers are < 2000 K.

Have a look at this post to see why the second law of thermodynamics says that your (MM and brantc's) solid iron surface does not exist.

This is also true for your imaginary "Aether batteries" on the surface of the Sun. In this case the interior of the Sun must be at least the temperature of the surface, i.e. 5777 K.

The photosphere or the corona or the chromosphere do not block IR or EUV from the surface. If the TOPs opacity data base were up we could look up exactly what is blocked by the photosphere.

LANL T-4 Opacity Web Page
http://www.t4.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/opacity/tops.pl
Intro
http://www.t4.lanl.gov/tdiv-features99/magee.99.pdf

The total heat output from a thin plasma(photosphere) is lower than the radiation from a solid body.

 

[brantc]

What's up with the absorption spectrum of the sun/emission spectrum of the corona, if the sun is made of iron?

From Nature.

Letters to Editor

nature 123, 909-910 (15 June 1929) | doi:10.1038/123909b0

Emission Lines in the Spectrum of the Solar Corona

W. ZESSEWITSCH1 & W. NIKONOW2
Top of page
Abstract

IT seems very improbable that the bright line spectrum of the inner corona can be attributed to thermal excitation of the coronal matter. We may seek its cause in the process of photoelectric ionisation and apply then, as a first and rough estimate of its brightness, the same analysis as Dr. Zanstra has done in the case of diffuse nebulæ (Astrophys. Jour., 65, No. 1). Thus we assume in this approximation that the emission spectrum of the corona is due to a mechanism of recombination of free electrons with atoms, ionised by the high quantum radiation, emerging from the sun, acting as a black body radiator; and that the corona consists only of monoatomic hydrogen. We have to suppose, further, that the high quantum radiation is completely absorbed by the coronal material, and that all the freed electrons recombine with the ionised hydrogen atoms.

Nothing has changed since then. There is still no standard explanation for this rise in temperature from the photosphere.

The corona is ionized at ~1.5 million degrees. This is about 100eV. This is the strength of the electric field at this point in the corona from the surface.

Below this the energy is lower because the electrons are accelerating, getting "hotter".
The solar wind and corona comes from surface emission and hydrogen that is ionized by the activity on the surface. The H as well as Helium, Nitrogen, Oxygen come in with the interstellar neutrals.

From American Scientist. Great article by the way.

Material Inside the Heliosphere

Although the ions in the interstellar medium are deflected around the heliosphere, a majority of the neutral interstellar atoms (mostly hydrogen and helium) flow cleanly into the solar system. Remarkably, about 98 percent of the diffuse gas within the heliosphere (excluding material associated with planetary bodies and comets) is interstellar material. In fact, the densities of the interstellar material and the solar wind are equal near the orbit of Jupiter. These surprising results can be understood if one appreciates that the solar wind must fill an increasingly large volume of space in the outer solar system, so that its density decreases with the inverse square of its distance from the sun. In contrast, the density of the neutral component of the interstellar wind changes very little as it flows through the heliosphere, until it is finally ionized.
http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/id.862,y.0,no.,content.true,page.1,css.print/issue.aspx

This is important because these are the raw materials for nucleosynthesis.
This happens on a continual basis on the surface in pinches(reconnections).

 

[The Man]

The total heat output from a thin plasma(photosphere) is lower than the radiation from a solid body.

So the surface temperature of an iron sun is even hotter than the photosphere?

 

[The Man]

Oh look from your quote.

We have to suppose, further, that the high quantum radiation is completely absorbed by the coronal material,

So yes they are saying that the “high quantum radiation is completely absorbed by the coronal material”

As to the latter part of that statement

and that all the freed electrons recombine with the ionised hydrogen atoms.

Well that just wouldn’t be a plasma, would it?

Indeed quite a lot has changed since 1929, particularly our understanding physics and specifically solar physics.

 

[Ziggurat]

The corona is ionized at ~1.5 million degrees. This is about 100eV. This is the strength of the electric field at this point in the corona from the surface.

Once again, you display your profound ignorance of basic physics. Electron volts are not a measure of electric field strength. It is a completely different unit. That's like saying the temperature of the sun is five acres. It makes no sense at all.

 

[The Man]

Some particular questions spring to my mind brantc. Would your iron sun be solid or mostly iron under its ferrite surface? Or would it be a combination of other elements? In either case how did that iron or those other elements originate in quantities sufficient to account for the mass not only of our sun, but also other stars of significantly greater mass? Considering of course that the compatibility of modern cosmology and astrophysics with the standard model of particle physics seems to do quite a nice job of not only explaining how our sun works, but why it is comprised of the elements, in the quantities, it appears to be comprised of.

 

[Reality Check]

Why is your solid iron surface emitting IR or EUV light that is typical of plasma

The photosphere or the corona or the chromosphere do not block IR or EUV from the surface. If the TOPs opacity data base were up we could look up exactly what is blocked by the photosphere.

So we should be able to see your solid iron surface in the IR or EUV wavelengths?
Guess what: these wavelengths are used a lot in solar imaging , e.g. by TRACE, because they are emitted by plasma.

First asked 31 March 2010
brantc
Why is your solid iron surface emitting IR or EUV light that is typical of materials at many 10,000 K, i.e. plasmas?

 

[Reality Check]

What part of the Sun emits a nearly black body spectrum temperature of 5777 K

Some of the questions for Micheal Mozina's Iron Sun model are applicable here. So lets start with:
First asked 29 March 2010
brantc
What part of the Sun emits a nearly black body spectrum with an effective temperature of 5777 K?

Noting sol invictus points about basic physics meaning that if it is the photosphere then your solid iron surface does not exist.

 

[Reality Check]

Outstanding questions for brantc

1. What part of the Sun emits a nearly black body spectrum temperature of 5777 K?
   First asked 29 March 2010
2. Why is your solid iron surface emitting IR or EUV light that is typical of plasma?
   First asked 31 March 2010

 

[Dancing David]

I'm waiting to hear how you maintain a layer at 1,000°C inside a shell of material which is at 5,537°C.

IR that travels only one direction.

 

[Cuddles]

Indeed quite a lot has changed since 1929, particularly our understanding physics and specifically solar physics.

Not least of which is the fact that the neutron, obviously a fairly important thing to know about when discussing things like nuclear fusion, was discovered in 1932.

 

[tusenfem]

Hey, you were missing in action. If you want to go back and finish that discussion, I'm game.

You did not provide anything that says my ideas were wrong.
I provided you with papers that show that flux ropes and plasmoids exist in the magnetotail.
I also provided sources that show that Flux transfer events are associated with "reconnection" and the modulation of plasma flow into the magnetosphere through flux ropes.

I also asked you to provide an example of a flux rope with no plasma flowing through it(detected by CLUSTER) to support your idea of a "bundle of magnetic field lines".

The flux rope comes first then the "reconnection".

I was on a trip to a conference, doing real science.

Flux ropes and plasmoids in the magnetotail are the result of reconnection.

Why would I want a flux rope with no plasma? Stupid request. Apparently, you still don't understand that the "bundle of field lines" can just be defined, for example the Io flux tube in the Jovian magnetosphere. And these are defined for a purpose.

In the laboratory it is easiest to make MRx between flux tubes as they are easier to handle. In the magnetotail it is just the oppositely directed field in the northern and the southern hemisphere that are pressed together, at the nose of the magnetosphere it is just the magnetic field of the solar wind pressed against the internal field of the Earth, etc. etc. etc. Your fixation on flux ropes is your problem not mine.