Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[shuttlt]

Folks, this thread is dying a slow death. Most posts these days are about: (a) topics that have been gone over more than once; (b) topics that have no bearing whats-so-ever on the case; or (c) posts that serve no purpose other than just base name calling.

I suggest that when the translated version of the judges report is available, a new thread be started. The major benefit of this would be to attract other JREF members who might have an interest in the subject but don't want to wade through a 150 page thread.

Not a bad idea. I suspect it'll still get trollish fast though.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Ms. Nadeau

But does any of this HIV stuff really matter? When you get told what when may well vary from country to country. Perhaps the US handles it better than the Europeans, or the Italians. Not that it's Utopia, but in South Korea they certainly reveal initial positive results.

If this is part of a conspiracy, it's surely a fringe aspect of it and doesn't look like being the chink that causes the whole thing to come crashing down.

shuttit,

Telling someone the results of the ELISA without having completed the Western is difficult to justify. In addition, I can find no evidence that Amanda was offered counseling. However, there are two more serious issues. First, releasing someone’s HIV status (positive or negative) to the public is wrong for the same reason that releasing any aspect of someone’s medical information is wrong. Second, let us contrast Ms. Nadeau’s version “she details her sexual escapades with at least seven men she'd been with in her three months in Italy before her arrest,” with reality. Ms. Nadeau’s account is factually wrong about Ms. Knox’s intimate behavior, falsely giving seven as her number of partners since coming to Italy. Moreover, Ms. Knox worried about dying young and not being able to have children in her diary, along with discussing her intimate partners. That is very far from detailing sexual escapades, and Ms. Nadeau ought to be ashamed of herself. Falsehoods such as what Ms. Knox wrote factored into how the public perceives Ms. Knox.

Chris

 

[shuttlt]

Telling someone the results of the ELISA without having completed the Western is difficult to justify. In addition, I can find no evidence that Amanda was offered counseling.

Probably so. No counseling in South Korea though, just the correct, negative result a few days later.

However, there are two more serious issues. First, releasing someone’s HIV status (positive or negative) to the public is wrong for the same reason that releasing any aspect of someone’s medical information is wrong.

Oh, I agree that this is crap. Am I right in thinking that how her diary was originally leaked is still somewhat opaque, though presumably in this instance it did not involve the family?

Second, let us contrast Ms. Nadeau’s version “she details her sexual escapades with at least seven men she'd been with in her three months in Italy before her arrest,” with reality. Ms. Nadeau’s account is factually wrong about Ms. Knox’s intimate behavior, falsely giving seven as her number of partners since coming to Italy. Moreover, Ms. Knox worried about dying young and not being able to have children in her diary, along with discussing her intimate partners. That is very far from detailing sexual escapades, and Ms. Nadeau ought to be ashamed of herself. Falsehoods such as what Ms. Knox wrote factored into how the public perceives Ms. Knox.

If you want to beat up on Nadeau, go ahead. I wasted good money on her ebook.

 

[Dan O.]

Until you show penitence you will not be rewarded.

Heck, Dan O., while trying to run away from your accusation that the Italian authorities had committed illegalities during Amanda's questioning, as confirmed - according to you - by the supreme court sentence, you had been tantalizing all readers here with some special observations in two slides of one of the powerpoints which it seemed that you were going to reveal to us at some point.

Some of us have tried to guess at what you see which is so significant in those slides.

Maybe there's nothing at all, and it was just a diversionary tactic so that you wouldn't have to deal with your accusations.
===================================

I'll make a bet: I'll bet that you were convinced that the "folded sweater" (a possible identification which I had made, but correct or incorrect is neither here nor there) in slide 17 is actually the pedestal of the sink in slide 66.

And also, that the "bent fingers" in slide 17 are actually the folds in the clear plastic toiletry bag of Amanda which she used to store her personal vibrator.

Well, if that's what you thought, you're wrong.

If you look at the lines which the floor tiles mark, you'll see that they meet the "folded sweater" and the "bow" of the floor pedestal at different points and different angles. Idem ref. the bent fingers and the clear plastic case.

Here's Dan O.'s Wild Goose Chase:


Relation of Items in Bathroom:

Ok, I'll give you the sink in 66 but not the sweaters in 17.

 

[stilicho]

Oh, I agree that this is crap. Am I right in thinking that how her diary was originally leaked is still somewhat opaque, though presumably in this instance it did not involve the family?

How could the source not have been her own family? They've been pimping evidence all over the world, ShuttIt. There is nothing you've read about the case that's considered confidential that wasn't sold in some form to the media by the Knox/Mellas clan.

 

[Fulcanelli]

To all,

From the Guardian about her testimony
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/12/amanda-knox-meredith-kercher-murder-trial
“She had written about her seven lovers in her prison diary only after she was mistakenly told she was HIV positive ¬following a prison blood test.
‘I was crying, thinking I cannot have children,’ she said of the two weeks before she was told she was negative.”

From the Guardian by John Hooper
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/04/two-faces-of-amanda-knox
“So many were taken aback to learn that, by the time she was arrested at the age of 20, Knox had had sex with seven men. They were less outraged by how this information was obtained: Knox was told in prison she was HIV-positive and asked to write a list of her lovers. Before she was told that a mistake had been made, the list was passed to investigators, one of whom passed it to a journalist.”

From the Seattle Times
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008120524_amandaknox17m0.html
“Most recently, media reports in Europe, based on leaked information, said Knox admitted having sex with seven men in less than two months in Italy. But the stories were wrong: Knox, told by a prison doctor she had tested positive for HIV, actually had listed all her life's sex partners. ‘Please oh please let it not be true,’ she wrote in her diary. ‘I don't want to die.’ It turned out to be a false positive.”

From Newsweek, Barbie Nadeau
http://www.newsweek.com/id/146214
“And by her own account in a prison diary leaked to the media, she details her sexual escapades with at least seven men she'd been with in her three months in Italy before her arrest. She even wrote that she might have HIV and then she uses a process of elimination to narrow down who might have given it to her.”

I have spoken with a couple of doctors about HIV testing. One said that a positive ELISA test should not be reported until confirmed by the Western. Another said that a positive ELISA should only be reported before knowing the results of the Western under rare circumstances and then only with counseling.

I stand by my previous comment on the matter.

Chris

You quote newspaper articles, ones fed by claims made by the FOA. Not a single one actually interviewed Amanda.

Her own words in her diary explains how it went down. She makes no mention of being 'asked' to write a list. And her list was made in her diary, not the place to make it if you planned to give it to the authorities...she made the list for herself. Nobody asked her to make it and her diary wasn't taken in order to obtain the list, since it was standard procedure that all diaries were taken (Raffaele's and Rudy's were also taken).

And it was Amanda's lawyers that were giving out her diary to the press. That's where Barbie Nadeau got her copy. And Frank Sfarzo got his from the family. It was Frank Sfarzo who published the list on Perugia Shock. Can you quote any other news article that published the list?

Your claims of conspiracies are therefore hollow.

 

[Dan O.]

Had Amanda given consent for the HIV test?

 

[Amazer]

Had Amanda given consent for the HIV test?

Perhaps consent is not required in Italy when you are being held in prison?

 

[Fulcanelli]

shuttit,

Telling someone the results of the ELISA without having completed the Western is difficult to justify. In addition, I can find no evidence that Amanda was offered counseling. However, there are two more serious issues. First, releasing someone’s HIV status (positive or negative) to the public is wrong for the same reason that releasing any aspect of someone’s medical information is wrong. Second, let us contrast Ms. Nadeau’s version “she details her sexual escapades with at least seven men she'd been with in her three months in Italy before her arrest,” with reality. Ms. Nadeau’s account is factually wrong about Ms. Knox’s intimate behavior, falsely giving seven as her number of partners since coming to Italy. Moreover, Ms. Knox worried about dying young and not being able to have children in her diary, along with discussing her intimate partners. That is very far from detailing sexual escapades, and Ms. Nadeau ought to be ashamed of herself. Falsehoods such as what Ms. Knox wrote factored into how the public perceives Ms. Knox.

Chris

It's standard procedure to tell people if their first test proves positive...EVERYWHERE. It's difficult to justify NOT telling them. What if they are infected and they continue to do things like donate blood or have sex and spread the disease around???

What's you evidence that Ms Nadeau was factually wrong....cite?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Had Amanda given consent for the HIV test?

No, she was leapt on bu 20 guards, beaten unconscious and a blood sample was forcibly taken...

Of course she consented!

 

[stilicho]

Moreover, Ms. Knox worried about dying young and not being able to have children in her diary, along with discussing her intimate partners. That is very far from detailing sexual escapades, and Ms. Nadeau ought to be ashamed of herself.

For once in a long time I agree with you. Amateur psychology and salacious gossip detract from the facts of the case. The reason three people are serving long sentences in Italian prisons is because of a murder committed in a cottage on 01 NOV 2007. AK's email of 04 NOV 2007 is relevant, as are her own words in court during her testimony, but not much else matters.

I won't buy any of the journalists' books on the case. Some of them did a good job reporting from Perugia but, since the verdict, they seem to be turning to the same kind of media gravy train that makes the Knox/Mellas clan appear so pathetic and grasping.

Amanda will be serving her long sentence not because of some emotional or mental issues, nor because of her relationships, but because she participated in the murder of another young woman and the cover-up that followed.

 

[lector]

From Newsweek, Barbie Nadeau
http://www.newsweek.com/id/146214
“And by her own account in a prison diary leaked to the media, she details her sexual escapades with at least seven men she'd been with in her three months in Italy before her arrest. She even wrote that she might have HIV and then she uses a process of elimination to narrow down who might have given it to her.”

Chris

Just a note in passing -

I'm struck by the fact that, out of the quotations in Chris's post, only Barbie went out of her way to employ such loaded phrasing in characterizing Amanda's sexual history; not to mention her getting it wrong about 7 men in Italy.

Does Barbie still stand by that statement?

ETA: Sorry, missed Chris's post above noting essentially the same thing.

 

[Fulcanelli]

How could the source not have been her own family? They've been pimping evidence all over the world, ShuttIt. There is nothing you've read about the case that's considered confidential that wasn't sold in some form to the media by the Knox/Mellas clan.

Certainly...they were offering the diary to the Admins of PMF, with strings attached. PMF refused. The reason they were offering it was because they wanted PMF to publicise their propaganda about the HIV test and to publish the list. It was around exactly that time Frank Sfarzo and Candace Dempsey (Italian Woman) 'obtained' the diary. Frank Sfarzo indeed published the list only the whole thing backfired on them...nobody was interested in the HIV story and instead focused on Amanda's sexual history. So, to then limit the damage of their cock-up they started accusing the prosecution of being the ones who leaked it. That's how it really all went down.

 

[Kermit]

Cough it up

Ok, I'll give you the sink in 66 but not the sweaters in 17.

That's mighty manly (or womanly) of you, Dan O., but as I pointed out both in the powerpoint as well as in my posts here, the possibility of the folded sweater being a sweater was that, a possibility, which was not referred to later in the powerpoint, nor was of importance to me.

If you feel that the object in question is important then please cough up the magic solution as to what it is, and explain why you spent several posts referring to it.

I won't repeat yet again your string of posts coyly pointing to it without identifying it, and insinuating that someone who can't see the relation between the "folded sweater" object and the rotated bathroom image is blind.

Tell us all, I'm getting more messages from fellow readers asking what your mystery is all about.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Just a note in passing -

I'm struck by the fact that, out of the quotations in Chris's post, only Barbie went out of her way to employ such loaded phrasing in characterizing Amanda's sexual history; not to mention her getting it wrong about 7 men in Italy.

Does Barbie still stand by that statement?

ETA: Sorry, missed Chris's post above noting essentially the same thing.

Of course she does. Have you not seen the list?

 

[Kermit]

And it was Amanda's lawyers that were giving out her diary to the press. That's where Barbie Nadeau got her copy. And Frank Sfarzo got his from the family. It was Frank Sfarzo who published the list on Perugia Shock. Can you quote any other news article that published the list?

Your claims of conspiracies are therefore hollow.

.
I got my copy from Judge Heavey's post on Anne Bremner's site.

The PDF of Amanda's prison email, with the (whited out) list of her lovers was there for weeks before Anne took it down.

The dead link is still there, I believe.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I should also point out that Amanda's HIV test was not made public just after the test was done...it didn't become known to the public until months after it had happened...well after April 2008. And like I said, it was the family that made it public, nobody else. They did so because they wanted to say to the public 'Look at how evil these Italians are...they told her she was HIV positive when she wasn't...see how they've been torturing her!'. They thought they could get mileage out of it for propaganda purposes and it backfired.

 

[Fulcanelli]

.
I got my copy from Judge Heavey's post on Anne Bremner's site.

The PDF of Amanda's prison email, with the (whited out) list of her lovers was there for weeks before Anne took it down.

The dead link is still there, I believe.

Heavey's letter is still preserved on PMF.

So, if people want to blame someone for for the list being leaked to the media and public, then they need look no further then Amanda's family and the FOA (Heavey and Sfarzo).

 

[lector]

If you look at the lines which the floor tiles mark, you'll see that they meet the "folded sweater" and the "bow" of the floor pedestal at different points and different angles. Idem ref. the bent fingers and the clear plastic case.

[qimg]http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4628/danoswildgoosechase.png[/qimg]

Actually, after the image rotation, it becomes crystal clear that the "folded knitted sweater" is in reality the face of a Roswell alien.

This explains so much.

 

[Kermit]

Actually, after the image rotation, it becomes crystal clear that the "folded knitted sweater" is in reality the face of a Roswell alien.

This explains so much.

My God, Lector .... so Dan O. was right!

I knew he wasn't bluffing with his powers of observation.