A few questions about political mindsets

[Nickolai_88]

I will be voting for the 1st time this November. And I haven't decided what I am. If I'm a Liberal or conservative. I don't really know whats good are really bad about either. Since my family doesn't talk about politics. What are the honest pros and cons to each. And please try to limit the "Talking points" I want cold hard facts about these questions.

What is it to be a Liberal?

What is it to be a Conservative?

What is it to be a Democrat?

What is it to be a Republican?

What is it to be a moderate?

What is bad about Socialism?

What is bad about The free market?

What is good about Socialism?

What is Good about the free market?

What is good about regulating industry?

What is bad about Regulating industry?

Please keep talking points to a minimum. I honestly want to know what these things are and what if anything they mean to me.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I will be voting for the 1st time this November. And I haven't decided what I am. If I'm a Liberal or conservative. I don't really know whats good are really bad about either. Since my family doesn't talk about politics. What are the honest pros and cons to each. And please try to limit the "Talking points" I want cold hard facts about these questions.

In addition to whatever answers you're about to get, I would suggest you don't just ask on this forum, if that wasn't part of your plan already. This forum tends to be pretty liberal. Which isn't a bad thing, but you should consider asking on a more conservative forum in addition to this one.

Spend time watching both Fox and MSNBC too. Read both Hot Air and Huffington Post too.

Myself, I'm a conservative. We'd love to have you on our side. But make it an informed choice.

 

[Upchurch]

You're putting the cart before the horse.

First, you need to figure out what matters to you and how you think it ought to be, then find a candidate who (mostly) matches those positions. Then, if you feel the need, you can apply some label to yourself.

But I would advise against doing that second part for as long as you can. It's a trap. You should have the freedom to change your mind. Often. Labeling yourself hinders that.

Just look at some of the more demogougue-ish members of this board. They'll fight tooth and nail for seemingly no other reason than the "other side" likes something.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

A lot of your questions are about the meanings of words. I encourage you to read George Orwell's essay "Politics and the English Language". While many of the examples are dated, many are just as fresh as ever. I'll quote one short section here about the way many of the words you're asking about have been sapped of all meaning other than "good" or "bad" (if even that).

Meaningless words. In certain kinds of writing, particularly in art criticism and literary criticism, it is normal to come across long passages which are almost completely lacking in meaning.† Words like romantic, plastic, values, human, dead, sentimental, natural, vitality, as used in art criticism, are strictly meaningless, in the sense that they not only do not point to any discoverable object, but are hardly ever expected to do so by the reader. When one critic writes, "The outstanding feature of Mr. X's work is its living quality," while another writes, "The immediately striking thing about Mr. X's work is its peculiar deadness," the reader accepts this as a simple difference opinion. If words like black and white were involved, instead of the jargon words dead and living, he would see at once that language was being used in an improper way. Many political words are similarly abused. The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable." The words democracy, socialism, freedom, patriotic, realistic, justice have each of them several different meanings which cannot be reconciled with one another. In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using that word if it were tied down to any one meaning. Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different. Statements like Marshal Pétain was a true patriot, The Soviet press is the freest in the world, The Catholic Church is opposed to persecution, are almost always made with intent to deceive. Other words used in variable meanings, in most cases more or less dishonestly, are: class, totalitarian, science, progressive, reactionary, bourgeois, equality.

† Example: "Comfort's catholicity of perception and image, strangely Whitmanesque in range, almost the exact opposite in aesthetic compulsion, continues to evoke that trembling atmospheric accumulative hinting at a cruel, an inexorably serene timelessness . . .Wrey Gardiner scores by aiming at simple bull's-eyes with precision. Only they are not so simple, and through this contented sadness runs more than the surface bittersweet of resignation." (Poetry Quarterly)

 

[Nickolai_88]

The problem is I really don't know how i feel about most issues.

Take the recent healthcare bill for example. Some things in it sound really good others sound really bad.

for example to have Starting this fall, your health insurance company will no longer be allowed to "drop" you (cancel your policy) if you get sick sounds really good. So does not being denied coverage because you have a pre-existing condition.

But some sounds really bad like, Under the new law starting in 2014, you will have to purchase health insurance or risk being fined. And the tax on "Cadillac" health care plans. So as a whole I don't know how I feel about the new law.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Take the recent healthcare bill for example. Some things in it sound really good others sound really bad.

That's because for a large reform bill to pass, it's got to go through a lot of compromise. So multiple sides on a position have to agree to things they don't like in order to get what they want included.

It's an ugly business (as they say, "Politics makes strange bedfellows"), but the alternative is to make it too easy to pass laws, and we'd basically have a completely different law on just about everything every couple of years as the balance of power in Congress shifts.

 

[JihadJane]

US "democracy" is broken.

It has been subverted and appropriated by the military/industrial/financial/pharmaceutical (etc) complex. If you vote, that's who you will be voting into power.

 

[Dragoonster]

The problem is I really don't know how i feel about most issues.

Take the recent healthcare bill for example. Some things in it sound really good others sound really bad.

for example to have Starting this fall, your health insurance company will no longer be allowed to "drop" you (cancel your policy) if you get sick sounds really good. So does not being denied coverage because you have a pre-existing condition.

But some sounds really bad like, Under the new law starting in 2014, you will have to purchase health insurance or risk being fined. And the tax on "Cadillac" health care plans. So as a whole I don't know how I feel about the new law.

I'd suggest not voting based on pro/con issues if you don't have a strong feeling on which side is best. You'll keep learning complexities of things in the future, but every time I vote at least I go by what I know now. So if I'm pretty ignorant on something (like most economics) that'll be a lot less important than something I've spent a lot of time thinking about.

Labels often serve the label-makers to try to push everyone who self-identifies with the label to accept the label-makers' beliefs, as in:

"I believe in x"
"But you're a liberal, right?"
"yes"
"Liberals don't believe in x, you need to rethink that"

Nah. People should rethink things based on good arguments and independent personal belief, not on how well it fits a label, or whether the party they happen to be registered with believes it. Then again I'm a hypocrite for telling you how to form your own opinions.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

I think that for many people, politics is about identity. I've heard posters on this very board saying things like, “When I was young, I saw some liberals/conservatives protesting this or that, acting like idiots, and I knew from that day on I was a conservative/liberal.”

By focusing on the issues rather than personality politics, by allowing yourself uncertainty, and by forgiving yourself for not having an opinion on everything 24/7, you're already ahead of the game.

Not much help, I know, but there you go.

 

[psychictv]

Have you tried taking the Political Compass test? It's not perfect, but it might be a good starting point.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

 

[Nickolai_88]

Have you tried taking the Political Compass test? It's not perfect, but it might be a good starting point.

ugh that didn't seem to help too much.

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 1.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.62

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Nickolai, are you having trouble deciding how to vote, or just how to label yourself politically?

You don't have to be a member of any political party or vote consistently with anyone's ideology. I don't think finding a political identity first and then using that to decide how to vote on specific issues or political races is a good approach, even if that's how many people do it.

ETA: I just read Ryan O'Dine's post after posting this. I think we're saying about the same thing.

 

[Thunder]

its pretty simple, the majority of Democrats are what Europeans call "Social-democrats". They believe in a strong welfare state and consumer protection, within the realm of the free market economy.

the majority of Republicans, believe everything wrong in the USA can be fixed with lower taxes, and less government regulation. if a company is polluting the air or water, the way to solve this is by taxing them less..or regulating them less.

the majority of Republicans, while claiming to be "libertarian", are against gay marriage, abortion rights, assisted suicide for the terminally ill, medical marijuana for extreme pain or suffering, etc etc.

and while the Democratic Party welcomes folks of all social backgrounds, i.e. Conservatives and Liberals, the Republican party is very strict about who can be a member, and demands strict adherence to Republican values. the Republican National Committee almost passed a 10 point document of values, that ALL members would have to adhere to at least 4 of them, to get RNC funding for campaigns.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

ETA: I just read Ryan O'Dine's post after posting this. I think we're saying about the same thing.

Great minds think alike.

Why ours do is a mystery.

 

[Thunder]

US "democracy" is broken.

on the contrary. this week's actions by President Obama shows that Democracy in the USA is alive and kicking.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Great minds think alike.

Why ours do is a mystery.

 

[psychictv]

the majority of Republicans, while claiming to be "libertarian", are against gay marriage, abortion rights, assisted suicide for the terminally ill, medical marijuana for extreme pain or suffering, etc etc.

I don't think that the majority of Republicans would consider themselves libertarian.

 

[Nickolai_88]

In addition to whatever answers you're about to get, I would suggest you don't just ask on this forum, if that wasn't part of your plan already. This forum tends to be pretty liberal. Which isn't a bad thing, but you should consider asking on a more conservative forum in addition to this one.

Myself, I'm a conservative. We'd love to have you on our side. But make it an informed choice.

Funny story about that. On 2 other "Conservative" forums I was banned for asking about the difference between the VA and medicare. Why a lot of conservatives support the VA but are strongly against medicare/Social Security.

I just wanted a clear answer as to why government run health care was bad but the VA was good. Needless to say all I managed to do was seemingly upset people by asking the difference between the VA and Medicare. The best answer I got was, "The VA is earned by our soldiers in blood, it cannot be compared with the entitlement programs of Social Security/Medicare."

Also, whats an entitlement program?

And how is the VA different from medicare?

 

[Fishstick]

Honestly, don't try to compartmentalize yourself. US politics is so very much already Red Team vs Blue Team, it would be much better if more people focused on their actual opinions and feelings rather than try to identify with one group.

It's perfectly possible to agree with Republican viewpoints, as well as Democratic ones at the same time - but in a different area. The hard part is for you to figure out which ones you think are more important come election time.

 

[DDWW]

First; Start with your core values.

Second; Politics is a business. Political parties are businesses. I have seen very liberal people run as Republicans and very conservative people run as Democrats. This is because most races are won in the primaries as many districts are pro one of the parties and that is the person who will win the general election. So it goes.

Third; go back to your core values and try to look for those traits where you can vote for a candidate, not necessarily the lesser of two evils.

DD (been voting for the lesser the past few national elections) WW