An Astrology Exchange/Challenge

[Hokulele]

Sorry I haven't contributed much over the past day or so. I am on the road and haven't had a chance to watch the rest of the Tarnas video. I will get to that and to some responses when I get back and have some time.

 

[Steve001]

I disagree. I think it's easy to disprove the claims of astrology by applying logic. While it's not couched in philosophical jargon, much of Phil Plait's fine essay is a philosophical (logical) argument.

For example:

I disagree with what you've said somewhat. Phil presents an argument based upon a core philosophical outlook but the argument itself is a mechanistic argument that's why it works. If he were to argue from a completely philosophical position a [ this is what I believe] then this argument would continue for centuries I think. That's the way astrologers present their position because astrology is at its core philosophically appealing.
But like I said, in the astrology is real no it's not tug o' war will continue with perhaps a shorter life span with the help of skeptics like us.

 

[Aquila]

Anyway, on what basis does Vedic astrology earn this reputation for having any accuracy whatsoever?

IMO, it's only posturing by Indian astrologers. I think what happened is that, due to the social structure of Indian society (Brahmin astrologers down through the lower castes), the astrologers told people thier "fates" and those people accepted those "fates" out of fear and ignorance, thereby willing those fates to happen. If course, if you bought a special gem to deflect the bad energies of certain transits you were OK. However, one fact is that the astrologer in Michael Shermer's experiment, which did seem to produce vaguely positive results for astrology was a Vedic practitioner, rather than Western/Tropical.

So you're telling me that there were all these musical genii born in a seven-year period in the 40s, and that's it until the 2020s? It would help explain the state of current popular music, but it doesn't actually bear examination at all.

As I said earlier, what you are doing gives honest cherry-pickers a bad name.

If you can bear any more astrology-music woo, it's a bit more complex than this; some of "Classic Rock's" most famous musicians actually have Uranus in Gemini, the next sign to Taurus, and one connected to words rather than melody. The important point though was that during the early 1940s, Uranus was in a trine aspect (very flowing and harmonious angle of 120 degrees) to the planet Neptune, first in Virgo then in Libra. It was this angle, according to astrologers, which gave this musicians/song writers their combination of inspiration/genius/individuality and art/illusion making/drama (Neptune).

A few people with Uranus in Gemini are Joni Mitchell, Mick Jagger and Cher. Of The Beatles, John and Ringo have Uranus in Taurus, while Paul and John have Uranus in Gemini. Furthermore, astrologers point to many of these entertainers coming to fame in the 1960s, when Uranus (and Pluto) were in Virgo, then Libra, thereby "triggering" these people's natal aspects.

What about Ceres? Pallas, Juno, Vesta? Discovered in the early 19th century, considered planets for 50 years, relabeled asteroids. Ceres is now considered a dwarf planet like Pluto.

The "big four" asteroids are, and have been part of astrologers' tool kit for many years, but were not given the same attention as the planets, mainly (I think) on aesthetic grounds because they are not completely round. Women astrologers like Zip Dobbyns and Demetria George contended that they balanced out horoscopes in favor of more "female" principles than just the traditional planets. Personally, I didn't find this necessary because I see Saturn as a female principle, where most astrologers see it as male.

That is exactly the problem.

There is always some major upheaval going on, particularly in the past century or so as the pace of change has accelerated globally. Even duing the Belle Epoque, when Europe was not, for once, overrun by war, we saw the birth of much of modern technology and the formation of the modern world. This era begins with the rise of the railroad and ends with the rise of the automobile and aeroplane, begins with the rise of the telegraph and ends with the rise of the telephone and radio. Just incredibly, incredibly dramatic changes to people's lives, a transformation of how we worked and played and lived. And that was the quietest period of the last hundred years.

There's always a conjunction or an opposition or something going on in the heavens; there's always turmoil and upheaval going on down on Earth; all you have to do is fudge the dates a bit and talk very fast.

None of it means anything at all.

I agree that on first impressions it does sound very vague and full of cherry picking. However, the qualities of the planets according to occult or mythical sources are different, and logically there would be a difference between a Uranus-Pluto conjunction and a Uranus-Neptune conjunction. There is also a subtle difference between a Saturn-Pluto conjunction (1946) and a Saturn-Pluto square (right now). It is very difficult to separate out all the different aspects, trying to correlate them to events and that is the purpose of astrological study, books and forums. It is an ongoing process, being refined all the time by people with backgrounds in history, science, psychology or the arts. I think it is futile to expect astrology to ever achieve the same precision as empirical science, but that doesn't mean that it is rubbish.

All the scientific and technological breakthroughs that you cite can be very roughly placed at "the beginning of the Aquarian Age", which to many astrologers started with the discovery of Uranus in 1781.

Why? What significance does that date have? It's not the birth date of any Soviet leader. It's the second anniversary of its foundation, but so what? Why not use the actual date?

The actual date? The chart that Greene used was, I think, based on this:

"On 7 November 1917, Bolshevik leader Vladimir Lenin led his leftist revolutionaries in a revolt against the ineffective Provisional Government (Russia was still using the Julian Calendar at the time, so period references show a 25 October date)." from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution_(1917)

I don't think that Greene specifically chose this chart to predict anything. The remark just came out while trying to demonstrate that countries have a "Collective Unconscious" , linked to the outer planets, which is the whole theme of the book. This is why she was working with a country chart, rather than the horoscope of any leader. According to some astrologers, (for example Nick Campion who compiled a book of World Charts) countries are quite amenable to astrological transits. If this is true, it is perplexing - some astrologers have suggested that the "mass mind" of a country does not have so much free will as a person and is therefore less able to deflect the astrological effect of planetary transits.

 

[Aquila]

Sorry I haven't contributed much over the past day or so. I am on the road and haven't had a chance to watch the rest of the Tarnas video. I will get to that and to some responses when I get back and have some time.

Hope you are having a great time. I'm on Spring Break this week so have had time to post here quite a lot. I'll be back at work next week so don't know if I'll be able to post much then.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I just found this nonsense on the net.

''Pluto, the lord of the underworld, symbolises the forces of deep transformation in our lives. A slow-moving outer planet discovered in 1930, Pluto's influence is in general most clearly noticeable as it distinguishes one generation from the next.

In our personal lives, Pluto's significance is found in its house position and the aspects it makes to other planets in the chart. The psychological process is one of being faced with obstruction, struggling to overcome it and being transformed in the process, leading to a regeneration of the area affected by house, aspect and sign. Pluto rules intense energy, signifying the areas in which we consciously or subconsciously seek to exercise power or control. Linked to our karmic responsibility, Pluto also indicates those areas where we need to gain the deepest level of understanding.''

Who decided this? Did the astrologers convene a conference?

This was another point Phil Plait made in his essay (see link in my earlier post).

It's not like the way humans discovered the effective compounds in willow bark by a method of trial-error-observation to informally detect correlations (and later follow up by isolating the compounds and eventually testing their effectiveness scientifically).

Astrological claims sprung fully-formed from the minds of astrologers.

And there's no great mystery where the supposed correlations came from--they were all a type of sympathetic magic.

 

[Hokulele]

Hope you are having a great time. I'm on Spring Break this week so have had time to post here quite a lot. I'll be back at work next week so don't know if I'll be able to post much then.

Thanks! It has all been work, so "great time" is relative...

I will have a few giant tl;dr posts on the posts and video coming up soon.

 

[Brainache]

If you can bear any more astrology-music woo, it's a bit more complex than this; some of "Classic Rock's" most famous musicians actually have Uranus in Gemini, the next sign to Taurus, and one connected to words rather than melody. The important point though was that during the early 1940s, Uranus was in a trine aspect (very flowing and harmonious angle of 120 degrees) to the planet Neptune, first in Virgo then in Libra. It was this angle, according to astrologers, which gave this musicians/song writers their combination of inspiration/genius/individuality and art/illusion making/drama (Neptune).

A few people with Uranus in Gemini are Joni Mitchell, Mick Jagger and Cher. Of The Beatles, John and Ringo have Uranus in Taurus, while Paul and John have Uranus in Gemini. Furthermore, astrologers point to many of these entertainers coming to fame in the 1960s, when Uranus (and Pluto) were in Virgo, then Libra, thereby "triggering" these people's natal aspects.

First bolded name above: Mick Jagger. Can I just point out that Mick Jagger has the same birthday as former Australian Prime Minister John Howard... It is difficult for me to imagine two people less similar than Mick and little Johnnie.

Second bold: Should one of those Johns be a George?

 

[dafydd]

Here is a list of famous people born on my birthday,12 March.I have no list of the unfamous people.

1270 - Charles of Valois, son of Philip III of France (d. 1325)
1336 - Eduard, Duke of Gelre (1361-71) husband of Catharina of Bayern
1479 - Giuliano de' Medici, monarch of Florence
1515 - Caspar Othmayr, composer
1607 - Paul Gerhardt, German hymnist (d. 1676)
1613 - André Le Nôtre, French landscape architect (d. 1700)
1620 - Johann Heinrich Hottinger, Swiss philologist and theologian (d. 1667)
1626 - John Aubrey, English antiquary and writer (d. 1697)
1637 - Anne Hyde, wife of James II of England (d. 1671)
1647 - Victor-Maurice, comte de Broglie, French general (d. 1727)
1672 - Richard Steele, Irish writer and politician (d. 1729)
1685 - George Berkeley, Ireland, philosopher/bishop of Cloyne
1710 - Thomas Augustine Arne, English composer (Alfred, Rule Britannia)
1718 - Joseph Damer, English politician (d. 1798)
1755 - Georges Couthon, French politician
1758 - Leopold earl of Limburg Stirum, Dutch general/politician [or March 22]
1768 - Carolus Antonius Fodor, composer
1781 - Frederica of Baden, Queen of Sweden (d. 1826)
1788 - Pierre J David, [David d'Angers], French sculptor
1793 - Augustin-Philippe Peellaert, composer
1800 - Louis-Prosper Gachard, Belgian historian
1806 - Jane Means Appleton Pierce, 1st lady (1853-57)
1808 - Gerrit van der Linde Jz, "Schoolmaster", Dutch poet
1816 - David Stuart, Brig General (Union volunteers), died in 1868
1818 - John Lorimar Worden, Capt (Union Navy), died in 1897
1821 - John Abbott, Quebec Canada, (C) 3rd Canadian PM (1891-92)
1821 - Luitpold von Bayern, Prince-regent of Bayern
1823 - William Flank Perry, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1901
1824 - Gustav R Kirchoff, Prussia, physicist (spectral analysis)
1826 - Robert Lowry, composer
1827 - John Robert Jones, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1901
1827 - William Richard Terry, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1897
1830 - William Felix Brantley, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1870
1831 - Clement Studebaker, automobile pioneer (Studebaker)
1832 - Charles Boycott, Ireland, estate manager/caused boycotts
1835 - Simon Newcomb, US, scientist/mathematician/astronomer
1837 - Felix Alexandre Guilmant, composer
1838 - William Perkin, inventor (1st artificial dye)
1848 - Cyrill Kistler, composer
1855 - John White, composer
1859 - Josef Cyril Sychra, composer
1859 - Abraham H. Cannon, Mormon apostle (d. 1896)
1860 - Salvatore Di Giacomo, composer
1862 - Jane Delano, US, nurse/teacher/founder (Red Cross)
1863 - Adolf A Wolfschoon, Curacao, poet
1863 - Gabriele D'Annunzio, Italy, writer/military hero (Intruder)
1863 - Vladimir Vernadsky, Russian mineralogist (d. 1945)
1864 - W. H. R. Rivers, British psychiatrist (d. 1922)
1874 - Edmund Eysler, Austrian composer
1875 - Julio Garreta, composer
1877 - Wilhelm Frick, German protector of Bohemia/Moravia
1878 - Gemma Galgani, Italian saint
1878 - Joseph Gustav Mraczek, composer
1880 - House Peters, England, silent film actor (Kansas Territory)
1880 - Nikolaos Georgantas, Greek discus thrower (d. 1958)
1880 - Henry Drysdale Dakin, British-American biochemist, known for the Dakin-West reaction (d. 1952)
1881 - Daniel Webster Hoan, Wisc (Mayor-Socialist-Milwaukee)
1881 - Gunnar Nordström, Finnish physicist (d. 1923)
1883 - Judge Jackson, composer
1883 - Zoltán Meskó, Hungarian Nazi (d. 1959)
1885 - Raphael HLAJM Verwilghen, Flemish architect/urban developer
1888 - Hall Johnson, composer
1889 - Philip Guedalla, historian
1889 - Þórbergur Þórðarson, Icelandic author (d. 1974)
1890 - A Evert Taube, Swedish writer/troubadour
1890 - Vaslav Nijinsky, Ukrainian/US ballet dancer (Petroesjka) [OS=Feb 28]
1890 - William Dudley Pelley, American leader of the Silver Legion (d. 1965)
1891 - Michael Polany, Hungarian/English chemist/economist/sociologist
1891 - George W. Mason, American industrialist (d. 1954)
1895 - William C. Lee, U.S. Army general (d. 1948)
1896 - Jesse "Lone Cat" Fuller, San Francisco Blues Great
1898 - Fredrik J "Frits" Bakker Jr, Dutch actor (Sold Grandpa)
1900 - David Croll, QC senator
1900 - Zoltan Vasarhelyi, composer
1904 - Ken James, cricket wicketkeeper (NZ's 1st Test, later Northants)
1907 - (Margaret Peggy McCrorie) Herbison, politician
1907 - Arthur Hewlett, British actor (d. 1997)
1907 - Dorrit Hoffleit, American astronomer (d. 2007)
1908 - David Saul Marshall, diplomat lawyer/politician
1908 - Inez Courtney, NYC, actress (13th Man, Crime Ring, Raven)
1908 - Rita Angus, New Zealand painter (d. 1970)
1910 - Roger L Stevens, producer (Giant)
1910 - Tony "Two-Ton" Galento, Orange NJ, boxer/actor (On the Waterfront)
1910 - Wilhelmus L Reijers, sculptor
1910 - Masayoshi Ohira, Prime Minister of Japan (d. 1980)
1911 - Gustavo Diaz Ordaz, president of Mexico
1912 - James McKay, lord provost of Edinburgh
1912 - Kylie Tennant, novelist (Battlers, Lost Haven)
1912 - Paul Weston, Springfield Mass, orch leader (Jim Nabors Hour)
1912 - Irving Layton, Canadian poet (d. 2006)
1913 - Harold Butler, cricketer (England pace bowler late 40's)
1914 - Jan Kapr, composer
1915 - Alberto Burri, Italian physician/sculptor/abstract painter
1917 - Googie Withers, Karachi India, actress (1 of Our Aircraft is Missing)
1917 - Tom Normanton, British MP
1918 - James Bracken, race horse trainer
1918 - Elaine de Kooning, American artist (d. 1989)
1921 - Giovanni Agnelli, CEO (Fiat Automakers)
1921 - Gordon MacRae, East Orange NJ, singer/actor (Oklahoma, Carousel)
1921 - Max de Metz, Dutch publisher/translator
1921 - Ralph Shapey, Phila, composer (Fantasy, Rituals)
1921 - Ülo Jõgi, Estonian freedom fighter (d. 2007)
1922 - Helen Parrish, Columbus Ga, actress (Hour Glass, Show Business)
1922 - Jack Kerouac, Beat writer (On the Road, Mexico Blues)
1922 - Lane Kirkland, union president (AFL-CIO)
1922 - Thomas Hugh Eastwood, composer
1923 - Hjalmar Andersen, Norway, 1500, 5K, 10K speed skater (Oly-gold-1952)
1923 - Mstislav Rostropovich
1923 - Norbert Brainin, violinist
1923 - Walter M Schirra Jr, Hackensack NJ, Capt USN/ast (Mer 8, Gem 6, Ap 7)
1923 - Mae Young, American professional wrestler
1925 - Georges Delerue, composer
1925 - Harry [Maxwell] Harrison, UK, sci-fi author (Deathworld Trilogy)
1925 - Leo Esaki, [Esaki Reona], Japan, physicist (Tunnel effect-Nobel 1973)
1925 - Louison Bobet, French cyclist (Tour de France 1953-55)
1925 - William G Whitehurst, (Rep-R-Va)
1926 - David Oliver Williams, trade unionist (COHSE)
1926 - George R Ariyoshi, (Gov-D-Hawaii)
1926 - Gudrun Ure, British actress (Lady MacBeth, BBC Sorcerer)
1926 - Hildy Park, Wash DC, actress (To Tell the Truth)
1926 - John C[lellon] Holmes, US writer (Horn)
1926 - Rolv Berger Yttrehus, composer
1926 - Ronald Alley, art gallery manager (Tate Gallery)
1927 - Mstislav Rostropovich, Baku Russia, cellist (Cello Concerto) [3/22 NS]
1927 - Raul Alfonsin, president (Argentina)
1928 - Edward Albee, Washington, DC, playwright (Virgina Woolfe, Zoo Story)
1928 - Phil Jones, principal (Trinity College of Music)
1928 - Roland Moyle, British deputy chairman (Police Complaints Authority)
1928 - Thérèse Lavoie-Roux, Quebec politician and senator
1928 - Aldemaro Romero, Venezuelan musician (d. 2007)
1929 - Bernard Costello, US, double sculls (Olympic-silver-1956)
1929 - Lupe Anguiano, Mexican-American civil rights activist
1929 - U Win Tin, jailed Burmese journalist
1930 - Antony Acland, provost of Eton/British ambassador (to US)
1930 - Robin Cavendish, disabled campaigner
1930 - Scoey Mitchill, Newburgh NY, comedian (Barefoot in the Park, Rhoda)
1930 - Stanko Horvat, composer
1931 - Geoffrey de Bellaigue, director (Royal Collection)
1931 - William "Buckwheat" Thomas, actor (Little Rascals)
1931 - Herbert Kelleher, Southwest Airlines co-founder
1932 - Andrew Young, US ambassador to UN (1977-79)/(Mayor-D-Atlanta)
1932 - Barbara Feldon, American actress and model
1934 - Rudolph Agner, CEO (Consolidated Gold Fields)
1935 - Helga Pilarczyk, German soprano (Salome, Lulu)
1935 - John Gross, author (Age of Kipling, Dickens & 20th Century)
1935 - John Doherty, English footballer (d. 2007)
1936 - Anthony Loehnis, vice chairman (S G Warburg & Co)
1936 - Keith Slater, cricketer (one Test for Australia 1958-59 series)
1936 - Lloyd Dobbins, Newport News Va, newscaster (NBC News Overnight)
1936 - Patrick Procktor, painter
1937 - Elizabeth Vaughan, opera soprano (Victor-Victoria)
1938 - Dimitri Terzakis, composer
1938 - Johnny Rutherford, auto racer (26 championship races)
1938 - Karl Soderlund, Duluth Minn, Mr Sally Jesse Raphael
1938 - Millie Perkins, actress (Diary of Anne Frank, Table for 5, Shooting)
1938 - Norman Hogg, British MP
1938 - Tona Scherchen-Hsiao, composer
1938 - Vijay Mehra, cricketer (Indian Test batsman from age 17)
1939 - Barbara Feldon, Pitts Pa, actress (Agent 99-Get Smart)
1939 - David Mlinaric, British interior director
1940 - Al Jarreau, Milwaukee WI, jazz singer (Moonlighting)
1940 - Albert Johanneson, soccer star
1940 - M.A. Numminen, Finnish singer and writer
1942 - Bert Campaneris, baseball player (Oakland A's)
1942 - Brian O'Hara, rocker
1942 - Paul Kantner, SF Calif, rock singer/guitarist (Jefferson Airplane)
1942 - Salvatore "the Bull" Gravano, mobster (testified against Gotti)
1942 - Ratko Mladić, Republika Srpska leader
1942 - Jimmy Wynn, American baseball player, 1963-1977
1945 - Hans van Emden, Dutch guitarist (Les Baroques)
1945 - Sammy "The Bull" Gravano, American gangster
1946 - Liza Minnelli, Hollywood CA, singer/actress (Sterile Cuckoo, Cabaret)
1946 - Frank Welker, American voice actor
1946 - Peter Whalley, British television writer and author
1947 - Jill O'Hara, Warren Penn, Broadway actress (Promises! Promises!)
1947 - Mitt Romney, 70th Governor of Massachusetts
1947 - Kalervo Palsa, Finnish artist (d. 1987)
1948 - Dana Walden, rock keyboardist (Champaign)
1948 - James Taylor, Boston MA, vocalist/guitarist (Up on the Roof)
1948 - Kent Conrad, (Sen-D North Dakota)
1948 - Les Holroyd, Oldham England, rocker (Barclay James Harvest)
1948 - Virginia Bottomley, British minister of health and heritage
1949 - Bill Payne, Waco TX, rock keyboardist (Little Feat-Time Loves a Hero)
1949 - David Mellor, secretary of the British treasury/MP
1949 - Mary Alice Williams, news reporter (NBC-TV)
1949 - Mike Gibbons, Swansea Wales, rock drummer (Badfinger)
1949 - Sara Lane, NYC, actress (Elizabeth Grainger-The Virginian)
1949 - Natalia Kuchinskaya, Soviet gymnast
1949 - Moctesuma Esparza, Mexican-American producer and filmmaker
1950 - Jon Provost, actor (Timmy-Lassie)
1950 - Willie Duggan, rugby football player
1950 - Javier Clemente, Spanish football manager
1950 - Wheeler Winston Dixon, American filmmaker, critic and author
1951 - Caren Kaye, NYC, actress (My Tutor, Bambi-Blansky's Beauties)
1951 - Jack Green, rocker
1952 - Eliézer Niyitegeka, Rwandan journalist, politician and genocidaire
1952 - Naomi Shihab Nye, American poet, songwriter, and novelist
1953 - Labamba, [Richard Rosenberg], rocker (Asbury Jukes)
1953 - Carl Hiaasen, American journalist and author
1953 - Ron Jeremy, American pornographic actor

No comment.

 

[Aquila]

First bolded name above: Mick Jagger. Can I just point out that Mick Jagger has the same birthday as former Australian Prime Minister John Howard... It is difficult for me to imagine two people less similar than Mick and little Johnnie.

They do share the same birthday but John Howard was born in 1939 and Jaggger in 1943. Politicians and rock stars do share an ability to be in the public eye though. Not everyone born with the Uranus-Neptune trine became a rock musician of course, but the fact that so many musicians do have it fits well with the traditional symbolism derived from occult sources. Perhaps the aspect in Howard's case gave him an appreciation of music and some talent, but other factors in his horoscope were stronger, attracting him to politics.

The two men also both have Sun conjunct Pluto, which astrologically suggests an attraction to power and control. Pluto, the ruler of Scorpio also rules "other people's money" and it's interesting that Mick Jagger studied at the London School of Economics before becoming a professional musician.

Second bold: Should one of those Johns be a George?

Oops, yes! Thanks for pointing it out and sorry for the slip.

 

[Aquila]

Here is a list of famous people born on my birthday,12 March.I have no list of the unfamous people.

1270 - Charles of Valois, son of Philip III of France (d. 1325)
1336 - Eduard, Duke of Gelre (1361-71) husband of Catharina of Bayern
1479 - Giuliano de' Medici, monarch of Florence
1515 - Caspar Othmayr, composer
1607 - Paul Gerhardt, German hymnist (d. 1676)
1613 - André Le Nôtre, French landscape architect (d. 1700)
1620 - Johann Heinrich Hottinger, Swiss philologist and theologian (d. 1667)
1626 - John Aubrey, English antiquary and writer (d. 1697)
1637 - Anne Hyde, wife of James II of England (d. 1671)
1647 - Victor-Maurice, comte de Broglie, French general (d. 1727)
1672 - Richard Steele, Irish writer and politician (d. 1729)
1685 - George Berkeley, Ireland, philosopher/bishop of Cloyne
1710 - Thomas Augustine Arne, English composer (Alfred, Rule Britannia)
1718 - Joseph Damer, English politician (d. 1798)
1755 - Georges Couthon, French politician
1758 - Leopold earl of Limburg Stirum, Dutch general/politician [or March 22]
1768 - Carolus Antonius Fodor, composer
1781 - Frederica of Baden, Queen of Sweden (d. 1826)
1788 - Pierre J David, [David d'Angers], French sculptor
1793 - Augustin-Philippe Peellaert, composer
1800 - Louis-Prosper Gachard, Belgian historian
1806 - Jane Means Appleton Pierce, 1st lady (1853-57)
1808 - Gerrit van der Linde Jz, "Schoolmaster", Dutch poet
1816 - David Stuart, Brig General (Union volunteers), died in 1868
1818 - John Lorimar Worden, Capt (Union Navy), died in 1897
1821 - John Abbott, Quebec Canada, (C) 3rd Canadian PM (1891-92)
1821 - Luitpold von Bayern, Prince-regent of Bayern
1823 - William Flank Perry, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1901
1824 - Gustav R Kirchoff, Prussia, physicist (spectral analysis)
1826 - Robert Lowry, composer
1827 - John Robert Jones, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1901
1827 - William Richard Terry, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1897
1830 - William Felix Brantley, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1870
1831 - Clement Studebaker, automobile pioneer (Studebaker)
1832 - Charles Boycott, Ireland, estate manager/caused boycotts
1835 - Simon Newcomb, US, scientist/mathematician/astronomer
1837 - Felix Alexandre Guilmant, composer
1838 - William Perkin, inventor (1st artificial dye)
1848 - Cyrill Kistler, composer
1855 - John White, composer
1859 - Josef Cyril Sychra, composer
1859 - Abraham H. Cannon, Mormon apostle (d. 1896)
1860 - Salvatore Di Giacomo, composer
1862 - Jane Delano, US, nurse/teacher/founder (Red Cross)
1863 - Adolf A Wolfschoon, Curacao, poet
1863 - Gabriele D'Annunzio, Italy, writer/military hero (Intruder)
1863 - Vladimir Vernadsky, Russian mineralogist (d. 1945)
1864 - W. H. R. Rivers, British psychiatrist (d. 1922)
1874 - Edmund Eysler, Austrian composer
1875 - Julio Garreta, composer
1877 - Wilhelm Frick, German protector of Bohemia/Moravia
1878 - Gemma Galgani, Italian saint
1878 - Joseph Gustav Mraczek, composer
1880 - House Peters, England, silent film actor (Kansas Territory)
1880 - Nikolaos Georgantas, Greek discus thrower (d. 1958)
1880 - Henry Drysdale Dakin, British-American biochemist, known for the Dakin-West reaction (d. 1952)
1881 - Daniel Webster Hoan, Wisc (Mayor-Socialist-Milwaukee)
1881 - Gunnar Nordström, Finnish physicist (d. 1923)
1883 - Judge Jackson, composer
1883 - Zoltán Meskó, Hungarian Nazi (d. 1959)
1885 - Raphael HLAJM Verwilghen, Flemish architect/urban developer
1888 - Hall Johnson, composer
1889 - Philip Guedalla, historian
1889 - Þórbergur Þórðarson, Icelandic author (d. 1974)
1890 - A Evert Taube, Swedish writer/troubadour
1890 - Vaslav Nijinsky, Ukrainian/US ballet dancer (Petroesjka) [OS=Feb 28]
1890 - William Dudley Pelley, American leader of the Silver Legion (d. 1965)
1891 - Michael Polany, Hungarian/English chemist/economist/sociologist
1891 - George W. Mason, American industrialist (d. 1954)
1895 - William C. Lee, U.S. Army general (d. 1948)
1896 - Jesse "Lone Cat" Fuller, San Francisco Blues Great
1898 - Fredrik J "Frits" Bakker Jr, Dutch actor (Sold Grandpa)
1900 - David Croll, QC senator
1900 - Zoltan Vasarhelyi, composer
1904 - Ken James, cricket wicketkeeper (NZ's 1st Test, later Northants)
1907 - (Margaret Peggy McCrorie) Herbison, politician
1907 - Arthur Hewlett, British actor (d. 1997)
1907 - Dorrit Hoffleit, American astronomer (d. 2007)
1908 - David Saul Marshall, diplomat lawyer/politician
1908 - Inez Courtney, NYC, actress (13th Man, Crime Ring, Raven)
1908 - Rita Angus, New Zealand painter (d. 1970)
1910 - Roger L Stevens, producer (Giant)
1910 - Tony "Two-Ton" Galento, Orange NJ, boxer/actor (On the Waterfront)
1910 - Wilhelmus L Reijers, sculptor
1910 - Masayoshi Ohira, Prime Minister of Japan (d. 1980)
1911 - Gustavo Diaz Ordaz, president of Mexico
1912 - James McKay, lord provost of Edinburgh
1912 - Kylie Tennant, novelist (Battlers, Lost Haven)
1912 - Paul Weston, Springfield Mass, orch leader (Jim Nabors Hour)
1912 - Irving Layton, Canadian poet (d. 2006)
1913 - Harold Butler, cricketer (England pace bowler late 40's)
1914 - Jan Kapr, composer
1915 - Alberto Burri, Italian physician/sculptor/abstract painter
1917 - Googie Withers, Karachi India, actress (1 of Our Aircraft is Missing)
1917 - Tom Normanton, British MP
1918 - James Bracken, race horse trainer
1918 - Elaine de Kooning, American artist (d. 1989)
1921 - Giovanni Agnelli, CEO (Fiat Automakers)
1921 - Gordon MacRae, East Orange NJ, singer/actor (Oklahoma, Carousel)
1921 - Max de Metz, Dutch publisher/translator
1921 - Ralph Shapey, Phila, composer (Fantasy, Rituals)
1921 - Ülo Jõgi, Estonian freedom fighter (d. 2007)
1922 - Helen Parrish, Columbus Ga, actress (Hour Glass, Show Business)
1922 - Jack Kerouac, Beat writer (On the Road, Mexico Blues)
1922 - Lane Kirkland, union president (AFL-CIO)
1922 - Thomas Hugh Eastwood, composer
1923 - Hjalmar Andersen, Norway, 1500, 5K, 10K speed skater (Oly-gold-1952)
1923 - Mstislav Rostropovich
1923 - Norbert Brainin, violinist
1923 - Walter M Schirra Jr, Hackensack NJ, Capt USN/ast (Mer 8, Gem 6, Ap 7)
1923 - Mae Young, American professional wrestler
1925 - Georges Delerue, composer
1925 - Harry [Maxwell] Harrison, UK, sci-fi author (Deathworld Trilogy)
1925 - Leo Esaki, [Esaki Reona], Japan, physicist (Tunnel effect-Nobel 1973)
1925 - Louison Bobet, French cyclist (Tour de France 1953-55)
1925 - William G Whitehurst, (Rep-R-Va)
1926 - David Oliver Williams, trade unionist (COHSE)
1926 - George R Ariyoshi, (Gov-D-Hawaii)
1926 - Gudrun Ure, British actress (Lady MacBeth, BBC Sorcerer)
1926 - Hildy Park, Wash DC, actress (To Tell the Truth)
1926 - John C[lellon] Holmes, US writer (Horn)
1926 - Rolv Berger Yttrehus, composer
1926 - Ronald Alley, art gallery manager (Tate Gallery)
1927 - Mstislav Rostropovich, Baku Russia, cellist (Cello Concerto) [3/22 NS]
1927 - Raul Alfonsin, president (Argentina)
1928 - Edward Albee, Washington, DC, playwright (Virgina Woolfe, Zoo Story)
1928 - Phil Jones, principal (Trinity College of Music)
1928 - Roland Moyle, British deputy chairman (Police Complaints Authority)
1928 - Thérèse Lavoie-Roux, Quebec politician and senator
1928 - Aldemaro Romero, Venezuelan musician (d. 2007)
1929 - Bernard Costello, US, double sculls (Olympic-silver-1956)
1929 - Lupe Anguiano, Mexican-American civil rights activist
1929 - U Win Tin, jailed Burmese journalist
1930 - Antony Acland, provost of Eton/British ambassador (to US)
1930 - Robin Cavendish, disabled campaigner
1930 - Scoey Mitchill, Newburgh NY, comedian (Barefoot in the Park, Rhoda)
1930 - Stanko Horvat, composer
1931 - Geoffrey de Bellaigue, director (Royal Collection)
1931 - William "Buckwheat" Thomas, actor (Little Rascals)
1931 - Herbert Kelleher, Southwest Airlines co-founder
1932 - Andrew Young, US ambassador to UN (1977-79)/(Mayor-D-Atlanta)
1932 - Barbara Feldon, American actress and model
1934 - Rudolph Agner, CEO (Consolidated Gold Fields)
1935 - Helga Pilarczyk, German soprano (Salome, Lulu)
1935 - John Gross, author (Age of Kipling, Dickens & 20th Century)
1935 - John Doherty, English footballer (d. 2007)
1936 - Anthony Loehnis, vice chairman (S G Warburg & Co)
1936 - Keith Slater, cricketer (one Test for Australia 1958-59 series)
1936 - Lloyd Dobbins, Newport News Va, newscaster (NBC News Overnight)
1936 - Patrick Procktor, painter
1937 - Elizabeth Vaughan, opera soprano (Victor-Victoria)
1938 - Dimitri Terzakis, composer
1938 - Johnny Rutherford, auto racer (26 championship races)
1938 - Karl Soderlund, Duluth Minn, Mr Sally Jesse Raphael
1938 - Millie Perkins, actress (Diary of Anne Frank, Table for 5, Shooting)
1938 - Norman Hogg, British MP
1938 - Tona Scherchen-Hsiao, composer
1938 - Vijay Mehra, cricketer (Indian Test batsman from age 17)
1939 - Barbara Feldon, Pitts Pa, actress (Agent 99-Get Smart)
1939 - David Mlinaric, British interior director
1940 - Al Jarreau, Milwaukee WI, jazz singer (Moonlighting)
1940 - Albert Johanneson, soccer star
1940 - M.A. Numminen, Finnish singer and writer
1942 - Bert Campaneris, baseball player (Oakland A's)
1942 - Brian O'Hara, rocker
1942 - Paul Kantner, SF Calif, rock singer/guitarist (Jefferson Airplane)
1942 - Salvatore "the Bull" Gravano, mobster (testified against Gotti)
1942 - Ratko Mladić, Republika Srpska leader
1942 - Jimmy Wynn, American baseball player, 1963-1977
1945 - Hans van Emden, Dutch guitarist (Les Baroques)
1945 - Sammy "The Bull" Gravano, American gangster
1946 - Liza Minnelli, Hollywood CA, singer/actress (Sterile Cuckoo, Cabaret)
1946 - Frank Welker, American voice actor
1946 - Peter Whalley, British television writer and author
1947 - Jill O'Hara, Warren Penn, Broadway actress (Promises! Promises!)
1947 - Mitt Romney, 70th Governor of Massachusetts
1947 - Kalervo Palsa, Finnish artist (d. 1987)
1948 - Dana Walden, rock keyboardist (Champaign)
1948 - James Taylor, Boston MA, vocalist/guitarist (Up on the Roof)
1948 - Kent Conrad, (Sen-D North Dakota)
1948 - Les Holroyd, Oldham England, rocker (Barclay James Harvest)
1948 - Virginia Bottomley, British minister of health and heritage
1949 - Bill Payne, Waco TX, rock keyboardist (Little Feat-Time Loves a Hero)
1949 - David Mellor, secretary of the British treasury/MP
1949 - Mary Alice Williams, news reporter (NBC-TV)
1949 - Mike Gibbons, Swansea Wales, rock drummer (Badfinger)
1949 - Sara Lane, NYC, actress (Elizabeth Grainger-The Virginian)
1949 - Natalia Kuchinskaya, Soviet gymnast
1949 - Moctesuma Esparza, Mexican-American producer and filmmaker
1950 - Jon Provost, actor (Timmy-Lassie)
1950 - Willie Duggan, rugby football player
1950 - Javier Clemente, Spanish football manager
1950 - Wheeler Winston Dixon, American filmmaker, critic and author
1951 - Caren Kaye, NYC, actress (My Tutor, Bambi-Blansky's Beauties)
1951 - Jack Green, rocker
1952 - Eliézer Niyitegeka, Rwandan journalist, politician and genocidaire
1952 - Naomi Shihab Nye, American poet, songwriter, and novelist
1953 - Labamba, [Richard Rosenberg], rocker (Asbury Jukes)
1953 - Carl Hiaasen, American journalist and author
1953 - Ron Jeremy, American pornographic actor

No comment.

You would only have your Sun sign, Pisces in common with all these people, and perhaps the planet Mercury and/or Venus, as these planets are never found more than one or two signs away from the Sun sign. But that's about it.

On skimming through these names I do see quite a few composers and religious figures and not many sportsmen. You would have to count these up more exactly before coming to any conclusions, but from this brief view, I'd say that they were quite representative of Pisces' astrological association with art, religion, the mystical, drama and film/photography.

I can't see Albert Einstein in there (a Piscean) and of course he was a scientist - but his discovery of E=mc2 has mystical repercussions.

 

[dafydd]

You would only have your Sun sign, Pisces in common with all these people, and perhaps the planet Mercury and/or Venus, as these planets are never found more than one or two signs away from the Sun sign. But that's about it.

On skimming through these names I do see quite a few composers and religious figures and not many sportsmen. You would have to count these up more exactly before coming to any conclusions, but from this brief view, I'd say that they were quite representative of Pisces' astrological association with art, religion, the mystical, drama and film/photography.

I can't see Albert Einstein in there (a Piscean) and of course he was a scientist - but his discovery of E=mc2 has mystical repercussions.

We have a new Black Knight in the forum.What about the millions of other people not on the list? The only thing that people born on 12 march have in common is that they were all born on 12 March.E=mc² does not have mystical repercussions,a meaningless catch-all woo phrase,if I ever heard one.

 

[dafydd]

Here is a list from 12 September.I see about the same distribution of musicians as in the 12 March list.You are suffering from confirmation bias


1492 - Lorenzo II de' Medici, Duke of Urbino (d. 1519)
1494 - Francois I of Valois-Angouleme, king of France (1515-47)
1494 - King Francis I of France (d. 1547)
1559 - Lodovico Cardi da Cigoli, Italian painter/architect
1575 - Henry Hudson, England, navigator/explorer (Hudson River)
1605 - William Dugdale, English antiquarian (d. 1686)
1655 - Sebastien de Brossard, composer
1688 - Ferdinand Brokoff, Czech sculptor (d. 1731)
1690 - Peter Dens, Belgian Catholic theologian (d. 1775)
1720 - Frederick Philipse III, NYC, land owner (Bronx, Westchester & Putnam)
1725 - Guillaume Le Gentil, French astronomer (d. 1792)
1740 - Johann Heinrich Jung, German author (d. 1817)
1761 - Georg Friedrich Theodor Wolf, composer
1768 - Bemnjamin Carr, composer
1788 - Alexander Campbell, Irish/US founder (Disciples of Christ)
1801 - Giuseppe Concone, Italian singing-teacher
1803 - Frantisek Matej Hilmar, composer
1806 - Andrew Hull Foote, Rear Admiral (Union Navy), died in 1863
1811 - James Hall, US geologist (Natural history of NY)
1812 - Richard Hoe, American inventor and industrialist (d. 1886)
1818 - Richard Jordan Gatling, US, inventor (hand-cranked machine gun)
1829 - Anselm Feuerbach, German painter
1829 - Charles Dudley Warner, Mass, newspaperman/author (Being a Boy)
1830 - William Sprague, governor of Rhode Island (1859-63)
1852 - Hubert H Asquith, premier Great Britain (L, 1908-16)
1852 - H. H. Asquith, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (d. 1928)
1855 - Simon-Napoléon Parent, Canadian politician (d. 1920)
1856 - Johann Heinrich Beck, composer
1857 - George H Breitner, Dutch impressionist painter/water colors painter
1858 - Fernand Khnopff, Belgian painter/sculptor
1871 - Friedrich, Prince of Liechtenstein, Romania
1873 - Sul-To-Wan, [Nellie Conley], US actress (Uncle Tom's Cabin)
1875 - Matsunosuke Onoe, Japanese actor (d. 1926)
1876 - Flor Alpaerts, Flemish composer (Tyl Uilenspiegel, Pallieter)
1877 - Maria "Marie" Hens, Flemish actress (Jane Eyre)
1879 - Fausto Agnelli, Swiss painter
1879 - H de Bie, Dutch lawyer (children's law)
1880 - Henry L Mencken, Baltimore, Md, newspaperman/critic (Prejudices)
1881 - Daniel Jones, England phoneticist (English pronouncing dictionary)
1887 - George Georgescu, composer
1888 - Maurice Chevalier, Paris, thanked heaven for little girls (Gigi)
1890 - Guido Guerrini, composer
1891 - Adolph Weiss, composer
1891 - Pedro Albizu Campos, advocate for Puerto Rican independence (d. 1965)
1892 - Alfred A Knopf, US, publisher (1966 Alexander Hamilton Medal)
1894 - Billy Gilbert, Louisville Ky, (Great Dictator, His Gal Friday)
1895 - Alice Lake, Brooklyn NY, silent screen actress (Glamour, Wicked)
1896 - Giuseppe Zoppi, Swiss writer (Il Libro Dell'Alpe)
1897 - Irene Joliot-Curie, French physicist, recipient of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry (d. 1956)
1898 - Ben Shahn, painter (1964 Arts & Letters)
1898 - Salvador Bacarisse, Spanish composer (d. 1963)
1899 - Gerard Hordijk, Dutch architect/painter
1900 - Eric Harding Thiman, composer
1901 - Ben Blue, Montreal, actor (Accidental Family, Frank Sinatra Show)
1901 - Ernst Pepping, German composer
1901 - Ben Blue, Canadian actor and comedian (d. 1975)
1902 - Juscelino Kubitschek, president Brazil (1955-60)
1904 - Gavril Nikolayevich Popov, composer
1905 - Boris Arapov, composer
1906 - Dmitri Dmitriyevich Shostakovich, St Petersburg Russia, composer [OS]
1906 - Ruvim Pergament, composer
1907 - Joe Lederer, Austrian actress/writer (Drei Tage Liebe)
1907 - Louis MacNeice, Irish poet (d. 1963)
1909 - Spud Chandler, baseball player (AL MVP 1943)
1909 - Donald MacDonald, O.C., LL.D. former president of the Canadian Labour Congress and politician (d.1986)
1913 - Ben[jamin S] Polak, Neth, physician/communist/resistance fighter
1913 - Jesse Owens, track star, spoiled Hitler's 1936 Olympics with 4 gold
1913 - Kenneth Lo, cookery writer/restaurateur
1914 - Rais Amrohvi, Pakistani poet and psychoanalyst (d. 1988)
1914 - Desmond Llewelyn, Welsh actor (d. 1999)
1915 - Billy Daniels, Jacksonville Fla, singer (Billy Daniels Show)
1915 - Frank McGee, American journalist (d. 1974)
1916 - Tony Bettenhausen, American race car driver (d. 1961)
1917 - Christian Geel, Dutch poet/sculptor/artist
1917 - Seamas NacNeill, piper
1917 - Pierre Sévigny, Canadian politician (d. 2004)
1920 - Irene Dailey, NYC, actress (Liz-Another World, Grissom Gang)
1920 - Jan W Schulte Nordholt, Dutch poet/historian (Blossoming Stone)
1921 - Frank McGee, Monroe La, news anchor (NBC Evening News)
1921 - Stanislaw Lem, Poland, sci-fi author (Solaris, Invincible)
1921 - Stanisław Lem, Polish writer (d. 2006)
1922 - Jackson Mac Low, composer
1922 - Viscount Allendale, English large landowner/multi-millionaire
1922 - Ellen Demming, American actress (d. 2002)
1924 - Howard Curtis Nielson, (Rep-R-UT, 1983- )
1924 - Jean Le Poulain, Marseille, France, actor (Divine)
1925 - Dickie Moore, LA Calif, actor (Expert, Oliver Twist, Little Men)
1925 - Stan Lopata, American baseball player
1927 - Gianna Maria Canale, Reggio Calabria Italy, actress (Go For Broke)
1927 - Ina Muller-van Ast, Dutch MP (PvdA)
1929 - Harvey Lester Schmidt, composer
1930 - Larry Austin, composer
1931 - George Jones, Saratoga Tx, singer (Golden Rings, Oh Lonesome Me)
1931 - Ian Holm, Ilford Essex England, actor (Himmler-Holocaust)
1931 - Kristin Hunter, [Eggleston], US author (God Bless the Child)
1933 - Stafford Heginbotham, toymaker/Football Club Chairman
1933 - Tatiana Doronina, Russian actress
1934 - Gunther Gebel-Williams, lion tamer (Ringling Bros Circus)
1934 - Glenn Davis, American athlete
1934 - Jaegwon Kim, Korean-born American philosopher
1935 - Allan B Swift, (Rep-D-Washington, 1979- )
1935 - Richard H Hunt, Chicago, sculptor (Pyramidal Construction)
1937 - Daniela Rocca, Sicily, actress (Battle of Austerlitz, Empty Canvas)
1937 - Wesley Hall, West indian/British politician
1937 - George Chuvalo, Canadian boxer
1938 - Tatiana Troyanos, NYC, mezzo-soprano (Octavian-Der Rosenleavalier)
1939 - Henry A Waxman, (Rep-D-California, 1975-86)
1939 - Phillip Ramey, composer
1940 - Linda Gray, Santa Monica Calif, actress (Sue Ellen Ewing-Dallas)
1940 - Mickey Lolich, pitcher (Detroit Tiger, won 25 in 1971)
1940 - Roger K Crouch, Jamestown Tenn, astronauts (STS 83, 94)
1940 - Stephen J Solarz, (Rep-D-NY, 1975-93)
1940 - Susan Sennett, Santa Monica Calif, actress (Big Bad Mama)
1940 - Patrick Mower, English actor
1941 - Hans-Karsten Raecke, composer
1942 - Tomés Marco, Basque/Spanish composer
1943 - Maria Muldaur, Greenwich Village, NY, singer (Midnight at the Oasis)
1943 - Michael Ondaatje, Sri Lankan-born writer
1944 - Barry White, Galveston Tx, singer (Love's Theme)
1944 - Leonard Peltier, American activist
1945 - John Mauceri, NYC, conductor (Wash DC Opera)
1945 - Maria Aitken, actress (Fish Called Wanda)
1945 - Vern M Lindblad, Seattle WA, Turkologist
1948 - Max Walker, Australian cricket player
1948 - Luis Lima, Argentinian tenor
1949 - Irina Rodnina, USSR, pairs figure skater (Olympic-gold-1972, 76, 80)
1949 - Mark Knopfler, English rock vocalist/guitarist (Dire Straits)
1949 - Tony Stevens, rocker
1950 - Cynthia Meyers, playmate (Dec 1968)/actress (Beyond Valley of Dolls)
1950 - Gustav Brunner, Austrian engineer
1951 - Berty Ahern, Dublin Ireland, PM of Ireland (1997- )
1951 - Joe Pantoliano, Jersey City NJ, actor (Finelli Boys, Fugitive)
1951 - Bertie Ahern, Irish politician
1951 - Gerald Stano, American serial killer
1952 - Gerry Beckley, rock vocalist/guitarist (America-Daisy Jane)
1952 - Neil Peart, Canada, pop drummer (Rush-A Farewell to Kings)
1953 - John Williams, US, archer (Olympic-gold-1972)
1954 - Russell G. Alexander, creator of Today In History v1.2
1954 - Peter Scolari, New Rochelle NY, actor (Jerry-Newhart, Bosom Buddies)
1954 - Adrian Adonis, American professional wrestler (d. 1988)
1954 - Jeff Jarvis, American journalist
1955 - Nina Blackwood, Mass, actress/VJ (MTV, Solid Gold, Vice Squad)
1956 - Brian Robertson, Glasgow Scotland, rock guitarist (Thin Lizzy)
1956 - Charles Henry Beck, Fayetteville NC, PGA golfer (1990 Buick Open 1992)
1956 - Barry Andrews, British musician
1956 - Sam Brownback, American politician
1956 - Ricky Rudd, American race car driver
1957 - Hawk, [Michael Hegstrand], wrestler (ECW/WCW/WWF/AWA, Legion of Doom)
1957 - Rachel Ward, Cornwell Manor England, actress (Thorn Birds)
1957 - Hans Zimmer, German composer
1958 - Gregg Edelman, Chicago IL, actor (Green Card)
1958 - Wilfredo Benitez, PR, boxer (world champ at 17y176d)
1959 - Cindy Rarick, Glenwood MN, LPGA golfer (1991 Northgate Computer)
1960 - Lynn Connelly, Washington DC, LPGA golfer (1988 USX Golf Classic-6th)
1961 - Mylene Farmer, Montreal Canada, french singer (Cendres de Lune)
1961 - Kathem Al Saher, Iraqi singer
1962 - Dino Merlin, Bosnian singer
1963 - Amy Yasbeck, Cincinnati, actress (Casey Davenport-Wings, Mask)
1964 - Dieter Hecking, German footballer
1965 - Silke Horner, German DR, swimmer (world record 100m-breast stroke)
1965 - Vernon Maxwell, NBA guard (Charlotte Hornets)
1965 - Einstein Kristiansen, Norwegian cartoonist, designer and TV host
1965 - John Norwood Fisher, American musician
1966 - Darren E Burrows, Kansas, actor (Ed Chigliak-Northern Exposure)
1966 - Ben Folds, American musician
1967 - Pat Listach, Natchitoches LA, infielder (Milwaukee Brewers)
1968 - Larry Laronde, US funk metal bassist (Primus-Frizzle Fry)
1968 - Ler LaLonde, American guitarist (Primus)
1968 - Paul F. Tompkins, American comedian
1969 - Ángel Cabrera, Argentine golfer
1969 - James Frey, American writer
1969 - Shigeki Maruyama, Japanese golfer
1969 - André Heinz, American environmentalist; son of Teresa Heinz
1970 - Rebecca Joyce, Australia, rower (Olympics-96)
1970 - Nathan Larson, American guitarist and composer (Shudder To Think, Hot One)
1971 - Terry Dehere, NBA guard (Sacramento Kings)
1972 - Amy Locane, NJ, actress (Sandy Harling-Melrose Place)
1972 - Cady Cantrell, Lanett AL, playmate (Apr, 1992)
1973 - Darren Campbell, British athlete
1973 - Martin Lapointe, Canadian hockey player
1973 - Paul Walker, American actor
1974 - Nuno Valente, Portuguese footballer
1974 - Caroline Aigle, First female French fighter pilot (d. 2007)
1974 - Jennifer Nettles, American country singer, part of Sugarland
1975 - Tom Carroll, actor (J T Adams-Swan's Crossing)
1976 - Maciej Żurawski, Polish footballer
1976 - Bizzy Bone (Bryon Anthony McCane), American rapper, (Bone Thugs-N-Harmony)
1977 - James Louis McCartney, son of Paul & Linda McCartney
1977 - Idan Raichel, Israeli musician
1977 - Nathan Bracken, Australian cricketer
1977 - Grant Denyer, Australian television personality and TV Host
1977 - Jeff Irwin, American musician
1977 - David Thompson, English footballer
1978 - Elisabetta Canalis, Italian model and actress
1978 - Benjamin McKenzie, American actor
1978 - Michael Paget, Welsh guitarist (Bullet for My Valentine)
1978 - Ruben Studdard, American singer
1980 - Fernando Cesar de Souza, Brazilian footballer
1980 - Gus G., Greek guitarist (Firewind, Dream Evil)
1980 - Sean Burroughs, American baseball pla

Ironically,I am a musician but before you get too exited I play in two bands,there are 14 people involved and between us we have all the astrological signs covered.I contend that Pisceans are no more or less likely to be artists or musicians than people born at any other time of the year.I have no idea how the planets could make anyone into a musician,in my experience it's practice that does it.

 

[Hokulele]

You would only have your Sun sign, Pisces in common with all these people, and perhaps the planet Mercury and/or Venus, as these planets are never found more than one or two signs away from the Sun sign. But that's about it.

On skimming through these names I do see quite a few composers and religious figures and not many sportsmen. You would have to count these up more exactly before coming to any conclusions, but from this brief view, I'd say that they were quite representative of Pisces' astrological association with art, religion, the mystical, drama and film/photography.

I can't see Albert Einstein in there (a Piscean) and of course he was a scientist - but his discovery of E=mc2 has mystical repercussions.

Just a quick comment, Aquila, you are doing it again. For one, you are trying to make testable claims about something you have already stated isn't testable. In addition, in this one post you are trying to have it both ways (something Dr. Tarnas does repeatedly). First you state that there shouldn't be similarities, as the only thing these people have completely in common is their Sun Sign, then one paragraph later you are looking for similarities, then one paragraph after that, you are trying to force similarities (with the comments regarding Einstein). Seriously, stop that.

I am almost through the video and will have my full comments up tonight.

 

[PixyMisa]

IMO, it's only posturing by Indian astrologers.

Correct!

If you can bear any more astrology-music woo, it's a bit more complex than this; some of "Classic Rock's" most famous musicians actually have Uranus in Gemini, the next sign to Taurus, and one connected to words rather than melody. The important point though was that during the early 1940s, Uranus was in a trine aspect (very flowing and harmonious angle of 120 degrees) to the planet Neptune, first in Virgo then in Libra. It was this angle, according to astrologers, which gave this musicians/song writers their combination of inspiration/genius/individuality and art/illusion making/drama (Neptune).

Do you ever stop to wreat what you wrote?

None of that is an explanation. It's just increasingly complex layers of excuses.

A few people with Uranus in Gemini are Joni Mitchell, Mick Jagger and Cher. Of The Beatles, John and Ringo have Uranus in Taurus, while Paul and John have Uranus in Gemini. Furthermore, astrologers point to many of these entertainers coming to fame in the 1960s, when Uranus (and Pluto) were in Virgo, then Libra, thereby "triggering" these people's natal aspects.

And there have been no talented musicians in the past 40 years?

The "big four" asteroids are, and have been part of astrologers' tool kit for many years, but were not given the same attention as the planets, mainly (I think) on aesthetic grounds because they are not completely round. Women astrologers like Zip Dobbyns and Demetria George contended that they balanced out horoscopes in favor of more "female" principles than just the traditional planets. Personally, I didn't find this necessary because I see Saturn as a female principle, where most astrologers see it as male.

Do they have an effect or not? If they do, not including them is wrong. if they don't, including them is wrong.

I agree that on first impressions it does sound very vague and full of cherry picking.

It is very vague and full of cherry picking.

However, the qualities of the planets according to occult or mythical sources are different, and logically there would be a difference between a Uranus-Pluto conjunction and a Uranus-Neptune conjunction.

Sorry, did you say logically?

There is also a subtle difference between a Saturn-Pluto conjunction (1946) and a Saturn-Pluto square (right now). It is very difficult to separate out all the different aspects, trying to correlate them to events and that is the purpose of astrological study, books and forums. It is an ongoing process, being refined all the time by people with backgrounds in history, science, psychology or the arts. I think it is futile to expect astrology to ever achieve the same precision as empirical science, but that doesn't mean that it is rubbish.

It hasn't achieved any precision at all. And that means it is rubbish.

All the scientific and technological breakthroughs that you cite can be very roughly placed at "the beginning of the Aquarian Age", which to many astrologers started with the discovery of Uranus in 1781.

In other words, if the facts don't fit, change the facts.

The actual date? The chart that Greene used was, I think, based on this:

"On 7 November 1917, Bolshevik leader Vladimir Lenin led his leftist revolutionaries in a revolt against the ineffective Provisional Government (Russia was still using the Julian Calendar at the time, so period references show a 25 October date)." from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution_(1917)

You said 1919, not 1917.

I don't think that Greene specifically chose this chart to predict anything.

Why not?

The remark just came out while trying to demonstrate that countries have a "Collective Unconscious" , linked to the outer planets, which is the whole theme of the book.

There is no such thing as the collective unconscious in the first place. Countries don't have them, and even if they did, it's physically impossible for them to be "linked" to the outer planets.

This is why she was working with a country chart, rather than the horoscope of any leader. According to some astrologers, (for example Nick Campion who compiled a book of World Charts) countries are quite amenable to astrological transits. If this is true, it is perplexing - some astrologers have suggested that the "mass mind" of a country does not have so much free will as a person and is therefore less able to deflect the astrological effect of planetary transits.

Evidence?

 

[Aquila]

Just a quick comment, Aquila, you are doing it again. For one, you are trying to make testable claims about something you have already stated isn't testable. In addition, in this one post you are trying to have it both ways (something Dr. Tarnas does repeatedly). First you state that there shouldn't be similarities, as the only thing these people have completely in common is their Sun Sign, then one paragraph later you are looking for similarities, then one paragraph after that, you are trying to force similarities (with the comments regarding Einstein). Seriously, stop that.

Stop what? The similarities I pointed out (composers, religious figures) were entirely linked on their Sun sign, Pisces.

 

[Aquila]

You said 1919, not 1917.

Sorry, my mistake.

If this is true, it is perplexing - some astrologers have suggested that the "mass mind" of a country does not have so much free will as a person and is therefore less able to deflect the astrological effect of planetary transits.

Evidence?

You are not going to accept this as evidence, I know, and I'll admit even we start that this verges on the ridiculous side of astrology, and is simply fitting facts to fit a pre-conceived theory, but I'll say it anyway:

The financial recession in America sadly means that millions are losing their homes. From what I'm hearing, it is worse here than in Europe. America's Sun sign is Cancer, with Jupiter and Venus also in Cancer, and right now those planets are being opposed by Pluto in Capricorn, and squared by Saturn in Libra. The sign Cancer, ruled by the Moon symbolizes the home and family, whereas Capricorn, ruled by Saturn applies more to the business world. This transformation (Pluto) of the business world is meaning that families are really having to be very careful with money.

There is a positive way of looking at even hard aspects: Cancer also rules food and nourishment - it is associated with the stomach. America's obesity problem which causes so many health secondary health problems like high blood pressure, diabetes and heart trouble is at last being addressed, not only at home (Cancer), but in the business world (Capricorn) with even the junk food industry cutting calories, salt and saturated fat.

Perhaps this is not a good example, because the recession is world wide, but even without the current transits, America does seem to fit the description of a Cancerian country, where the national ideal is a house with a picket fence, mom and apple pie.

England also seems to fit the archetype of Capricorn - derived from the crowning of William I on Christmas day 1066 - the conservative traditions and sense of propriety, the mechanical inventions like the steam engine, the first iron ship, Newton, the organized empire when it existed.

Yes, I know ... there's no need to point out how silly it all sounds and personally I don't waste my time believing this side of astrology. But you did ask, and I'm just conveying the information that I've read.

 

[Aquila]

.E=mc² does not have mystical repercussions,a meaningless catch-all woo phrase,if I ever heard one.

Well, that's your opinion. The two fishes of the astrological Pisces glyph are connected but swimming in opposite directions and symbolize the "spiritual"/immaterial world and the material world, both contained within the "water" consciousness. I see a striking analogy to E=mc2. Just substitute light for one fish, matter for the other, and Energy for the water.

 

[Aquila]

Here is a list from 12 September.I see about the same distribution of musicians as in the 12 March list.You are suffering from confirmation bias.

Not necessarily, because both Virgo and Pisces can be connected to music. Virgo, an earth sign ruled by Mercury gives the technical skill and a desire for perfection, while Pisces, a Water sign, rules more of the inspiration and feeling side of music. I would also expect to find musicians in all the signs. You would really have to consider what type of music they played or wrote and relate that to the specific Sun sign or planets in their horoscopes.

Ironically,I am a musician but before you get too exited I play in two bands,there are 14 people involved and between us we have all the astrological signs covered.I contend that Pisceans are no more or less likely to be artists or musicians than people born at any other time of the year.I have no idea how the planets could make anyone into a musician,in my experience it's practice that does it.

I agree that all signs can produce musicians and that practice is the key to success. As mentioned above, analyzing the whole horoscope is neccessary if we want to get any insight into what planet or aspect might be related to some aspect of a person's life. It's much more complicated than just Sun signs. For example, Beethoven was a Sagittarian with an Aries Moon, both Fire signs, and when I think of the intro to his 5th symphony, I think of a very fiery energy. Chopin on the other hand wrote much more dreamy and romantic music, more fitting to his Pisces Sun and Libra Moon.

 

[Aquila]

We have a new Black Knight in the forum.What about the millions of other people not on the list? The only thing that people born on 12 march have in common is that they were all born on 12 March.

Who is Black Knight? If you did not want me to make some comment about the long list of people you posted with March 12 birthday, why did you post them?
Has anyone actually counted up the number of composers and compared it to the total?

 

[PixyMisa]

You are not going to accept this as evidence, I know, and I'll admit even we start that this verges on the ridiculous side of astrology, and is simply fitting facts to fit a pre-conceived theory

That's what all astrology is.

The financial recession in America sadly means that millions are losing their homes. From what I'm hearing, it is worse here than in Europe. America's Sun sign is Cancer, with Jupiter and Venus also in Cancer, and right now those planets are being opposed by Pluto in Capricorn, and squared by Saturn in Libra. The sign Cancer, ruled by the Moon symbolizes the home and family, whereas Capricorn, ruled by Saturn applies more to the business world. This transformation (Pluto) of the business world is meaning that families are really having to be very careful with money.

Says who?

In 1929, we hadn't yet discovered Pluto. (Or in the 1893 depression either.)

So apparently, those, far more severe, financial disasters didn't happen?

There is a positive way of looking at even hard aspects: Cancer also rules food and nourishment - it is associated with the stomach. America's obesity problem which causes so many health secondary health problems like high blood pressure, diabetes and heart trouble is at last being addressed, not only at home (Cancer), but in the business world (Capricorn) with even the junk food industry cutting calories, salt and saturated fat.

Again, this is not evidence of any sort. It's pure waffle.

Perhaps this is not a good example, because the recession is world wide

No, in fact it's not. Ask China or Australia for example, or even Canada.

but even without the current transits, America does seem to fit the description of a Cancerian country, where the national ideal is a house with a picket fence, mom and apple pie.

More pure waffle.

England also seems to fit the archetype of Capricorn - derived from the crowning of William I on Christmas day 1066 - the conservative traditions and sense of propriety, the mechanical inventions like the steam engine, the first iron ship, Newton, the organized empire when it existed.

Again, this is just cherry picking of facts to fit total drivel.

Yes, I know ... there's no need to point out how silly it all sounds and personally I don't waste my time believing this side of astrology. But you did ask, and I'm just conveying the information that I've read.

You brought it up. I didn't bring it up, you did.

It is, as we can see from your defense of it, abject nonsense. But it's no different from any part of astrology. What does this tell you?