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Electronic Cigarettes?

bluesjnr said:
I'm not convinced by your HUGE FONT - sorry. Whilst the story is horrific, you cannot (conclusively) link this to your friend and it proves nothing.

You are right when you say that it is;



But your anecdotal tosh reaps what it sows. I take any anecdote to be a stretch of the truth (lie), more so when people start to make the kinda claims your friend did to justify him smoking.
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It was a frickin' anecdote! What the hell?!?

I wasn't posting some kind of frickin' claim, I was just relating an anecdote my friend told me because the lung cancer line reminded me of it.

I'm sorry if that got your panties in a twist, but it is what it is. Sorry I didn't do my "civic duty" and grill him for "evidence".

That's what he told me, okay? I know him as an honest person so I never had any reason to think he was lying.

:mad:


ETA:
It's not MY huge font, but the article's huge font.
 
NateHevens said:
It was a frickin' anecdote! What the hell?!?

I wasn't posting some kind of frickin' claim, I was just relating an anecdote my friend told me because the lung cancer line reminded me of it.

I'm sorry if that got your panties in a twist, but it is what it is. Sorry I didn't do my "civic duty" and grill him for "evidence".

That's what he told me, okay? I know him as an honest person so I never had any reason to think he was lying.

:mad:


ETA:
It's not MY huge font, but the article's huge font.
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Fine, my friend. Go and look around this site and see why anecdotal evidence will not be accepted and mind your language. Whilst you are at it look up "ad hominem". Welcome to JREF.
 
Oh come on. Nate was just giving an example of a single smoker and his thought progress. No claim, no evidence, just an anecdote. It's perfectly possible the story happened just as related. It's possible it didn't. Either way, it doesn't prove anything, and no one claimed it did.

There's a difference between using anecdotal evidence and just telling a story. Just as there's a difference between thinking critically and just being mean.
 
Mirrorglass said:
Oh come on. Nate was just giving an example of a single smoker and his thought progress. No claim, no evidence, just an anecdote. It's perfectly possible the story happened just as related. It's possible it didn't. Either way, it doesn't prove anything, and no one claimed it did.

There's a difference between using anecdotal evidence and just telling a story. Just as there's a difference between thinking critically and just being mean.
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So, what is it Mirrorglass? Spurious claims, editorialised opinion, no evidence, maybe anecdotal evidence or maybe not? If you want to present an opinion here then I suggest you look around.

You do not have to take my advice, of course.
 
I'm not sure I follow; are you referring to my claims or those of Nate?

If you mean Nate, then it was an anecdote. Or, if you will, a claim of a personal experience, one that is by no means impossible or even unlikely. Since it wasn't presented as evidence of anything, it was a perfectly acceptable thing to say. To question the truth of the statement, while falling within the realm of critical thinking, is completely useless. Now if Nate had claimed that "people smoke because there are horrific crimes happening", then it would've been reasonable to question his evidence. But since the anecdote was presented as nothing but an anecdote, attacking it does about as much good as demanding proof for my statement "I have blue eyes." Which is none, assuming you don't like making people angry.

If you mean my points, then I think I based them well enough, with the exception of the parts you misrepresented (I'm assuming by accident). If you still think some are unclear, do point the holes out and I'll do my best to fill them.
 
I bought one of these a few months ago. However, I was not trying to quit smoking, I was merely looking for a more economical way of doing it. Although, I did find the concept of smoking something (allegedly) safer appealing, it wasn't my main reason for trying them.

Anywho, after about two weeks, I went back to my old cigs.

What I liked about them:
- The light on the end is cool. And it comes in two colors; red and blue.
- It's clean. No ashtrays, smell, etc., and the air quality in my house greatly improved.
- It feels like you are smoking (to an extent, see below)
- You can smoke it anywhere (technically, although it's probably not a good idea to fire one up in a classroom or movie theater, etc.)
- The cartridges are inexpensive, compared to premium brand cigarettes.
- It's supposed to be safer. At the very least, the vapor contains a lot less harmful chemicals than conventional cigarettes.

What I didn't like:
- The taste. Generally awful, and at times gag-worthy. However, I only tried two flavors from one manufacturer, so your mileage may vary.
- It didn't feel enough like smoking a cigarette. It's "heavy" and hard and not balanced the same way a normal cigarette is. In your hands, it's a bit awkward and off-putting. Also, you have to drag on it harder. Consequently, I didn't find the experience to be as relaxing as smoking my usual brand.
- It's one more thing to re-charge.

Again, I must stress that I only tried one brand of e-cigarette (after doing some research on the internet).

I wonder how safe they really are. The vapor, supposedly, contains just water, nicotine, and a trace amount of some solvent (or something, forgot exactly what).
 
Giggywig said:
zYesterday as I was driving home I heard an ad on the radio for these things. In part it said:
We can't say they are healthy BUT there is no tar or nicotine...
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This is very odd, since every time I've seen them, they've been marketted as a cleaner, safer nicotine delivery system; and the places that sell them do so concurrently with flavoured nicotine-containing solutions intended for use in the mini-vaporizers. IIRC, they were originally marketted as a smoking cessation aid.
 
quarky said:
I wonder if they'll be allowed in smoke free places?
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I know a number of people who use them; and yes, since they don't produce smoke or other objectionable airborne substances, they are quite acceptable in places that don't permit smoking.
 
The first one of these things I ever saw was on a plane, travelling between Rome and Cairo... about 3 months ago.

The smoker seemed very aggressive towards everyone who told him to stop using it. Oddly, the cabin crew didn't seem to care (Egyptair...)
 
Electronic smokes are for sissies. I'm sticking with my good ol' gas-powered cigarettes.
 
I'm quite certain I'm stating the obvious when I say tobacco smoke is far more harmful than the electronic cigarettes. I'd still like to see more in-depth analysis done on the latter as far as health risks go (long term).

If it helps a tobacco smoker abstain from using, I'd support it. I wouldn't suggest a non-smoker take up electronic cigarettes. That is just my personal opinion.
 
Tdoc said:
I'm quite certain I'm stating the obvious when I say tobacco smoke is far more harmful than the electronic cigarettes. I'd still like to see more in-depth analysis done on the latter as far as health risks go (long term).
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Something to be noted is that the history of medicine is full of cases where something obvious turned out to be completely wrong. So while it does seem very likely that these E-cigarettes aren't as harmful as real ones, we don't really know that until sufficient studies have been carried out.

Actually, now that I look at your post again, that's pretty much what you said. Never mind.
 
Mirrorglass said:
Something to be noted is that the history of medicine is full of cases where something obvious turned out to be completely wrong. So while it does seem very likely that these E-cigarettes aren't as harmful as real ones, we don't really know that until sufficient studies have been carried out.

Actually, now that I look at your post again, that's pretty much what you said. Never mind.
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Correct. And modern medicine is full of approved medications and treatments with very adverse side effects, the goal ideally being the treatment outweighing the cost.

As far as electronic cigarettes are concerned (just to reiterate) I think it's a silly idea for a non-smoker to start using them. It doesn't make sense to me. We do have quite a bit of research and data on the harm tobacco smoke does, and preliminary data suggest the contents of electronic cigarettes to be safer by comparison - and so long as they aren't mistakenly lit ;).
 
Tdoc said:
Correct. And modern medicine is full of approved medications and treatments with very adverse side effects, the goal ideally being the treatment outweighing the cost.

As far as electronic cigarettes are concerned (just to reiterate) I think it's a silly idea for a non-smoker to start using them. It doesn't make sense to me. We do have quite a bit of research and data on the harm tobacco smoke does, and preliminary data suggest the contents of electronic cigarettes to be safer by comparison - and so long as they aren't mistakenly lit ;).
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What would happen if you lit one up anyway? Would it explode? :D
 
bluesjnr said:
Fine, my friend. Go and look around this site and see why anecdotal evidence will not be accepted and mind your language. Whilst you are at it look up "ad hominem". Welcome to JREF.
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Perhaps you could use a cigarette. He relays a simple story about a friend illustrating a perspective - i.e. "Life's short and barbaric so enjoy yourself while you have time, because you might be gang-raped tomorrow." - and you jump on him like an Internet-Skeptic-Wind-up-Doll shouting "Liar!" and "Fallacy!" over nothing. He wasn't submitting a thesis he was just talking.

bluesjnr said:
I'm an ex smoker who quit, cold turkey, after many attempts, an ultimately 60 per day, 20 year habit on Nov 1st 2007 and I have never done anything else that has so dramatically improved my health and sense of well being
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Liar! Don't you know where you are? Where are your studies to prove this? Etc, etc.
 
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