Congratulations to my fellow Democrats

[WildCat]

You tell me.

Certainly. Yes, the CBO assumes that Medicare will be cut by $500 billion.

I'd put the probability of Medicare being cut at all (let alone $500 billion) at between 0 and 0.00001%.

In fact, Medicare payments to doctors was supposed to be cut by 20% in February. Then it was put off until March, then until April, now I think it's October. It won't happen in October either, not so close to the election. In fact, it won't ever happen IMHO.

 

[thaiboxerken]

And I'm calling you on it.

Why?

 

[sylvan8798]

Obama is speaking. Biden looks like he is going to cry with happiness...

 

[Malerin]

Increases in premiums have to be justified to the government.

Then I fold up shop. If the govt. prevents me from raising rates enough to simply break even, there's not much point staying in business.

I think they'll revisit this. Krugman has talked about it as well. You need a mandate with teeth (or better yet, a law that simply states you will have health insurance).

 

[FlamingMoe]

Why?

Because I enjoy beating my head against the brick wall of someone else's stupid claims.

Now, are you going to support your idiotic claim or not?

 

[WildCat]

Which would cover a 7% increase in a generic $10,000 insurance plan. How much will premiums go up if a lot of healthy people choose to pay the $700? If I'm an insurer, and I'm told I have to take anyone who walks through the door, and there won't be an influx of low-risk people coming into the pool, what can I do, other than raise premiums on existing members?

Actually, under the bill you don't pay a penalty at all if you can't find a plan costing less than 8% of your income. And your odds of that happening are quite slim if you make less than $40,000/year, or even more if you live in a high-cost state like New York or New Jersey.

But people will do as you fear, and put off buying insurance until they're sick. And this will certainly raise premiums dramatically.

 

[corplinx]

Obama is speaking. Biden looks like he is going to cry with happiness...

Obama looks orange again.

Biden's front-to-back combover shows signs of collapsing.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Because I enjoy beating my head against the brick wall of someone else's stupid claims.

Proof?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Certainly. Yes, the CBO assumes that Medicare will be cut by $500 billion.

You are wrong. The CBO does not assume that. The CBO estimates that the bill will result in about $500 billion reduction in Medicare expenditures over the next 10 years.

It is not something assumed. It is the calculated estimate of the effect of this bill. (The category is actually provisions not related to health insurance coverage, which is mostly related to Medicare.)

In other words, this is what the CBO thinks the effect of the bill will be over ten years on spending in this category (mostly Medicare) compared to the spending on this category if the bill hadn't passed.

From the CBO report:

For the two pieces of legislation combined, Table 3 displays detailed estimates of the costs or savings from the health provisions that are not related to health insurance coverage (primarily involving the Medicare program) and from certain of the revenue provisions that are not related to insurance coverage.

 

[corplinx]

You are wrong. The CBO does not assume that. The CBO estimates that the bill will result in about $500 billion reduction in Medicare expenditures over the next 10 years.

It is not something assumed. It is the calculated estimate of the effect of this bill. (The category is actually provisions not related to health insurance coverage, which is mostly related to Medicare.)

In other words, this is what the CBO thinks the effect of the bill will be over ten years on spending in this category (mostly Medicare) compared to the spending on this category if the bill hadn't passed.

From the CBO report:

You didn't debunk Wildcat's "garbage in-garbage out" assertion. You just explained the exact same problem with different words.

 

[FlamingMoe]

Proof?

I'm still replying to you.

Now, are you going to back up your stupid claims or not?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Now, are you going to back up your stupid claims or not?

Prove to me that they are stupid claims.

 

[FlamingMoe]

Prove to me that they are stupid claims.

When are you going to stop trolling and back up your stupid claims?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You are wrong. The CBO does not assume that. The CBO estimates that the bill will result in about $500 billion reduction in Medicare expenditures over the next 10 years.

10 years to produce enough to cover 10 weeks of Obamas deficits. And that's only if it meets expectations.

 

[thaiboxerken]

When are you going to stop trolling and back up your stupid claims?

Prove that it's a stupid claim first.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

You didn't debunk Wildcat's "garbage in-garbage out" assertion. You just explained the exact same problem with different words.

Not at all. He claimed the CBO did accurate estimates based on a false assumption. The ~$500 billion is the result of their estimates, not an a priori assumption.

It seems the only assumption is that MHaze assumes the bill just based will be repealed or amended such that these figures will come out differently. The CBO's job isn't to guess whether this law will remain in effect. The CBO calculated the effect of this bill if it stays in effect.

You can't claim that these figures aren't the best estimate because you doubt that the law just passed will remain in effect.

 

[FlamingMoe]

Prove that it's a stupid claim first.

Stop trolling. Back up your claim already, or retract it.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Stop trolling. Back up your claim already, or retract it.

I'm not trolling. Now prove that my point is stupid.

 

[Unabogie]

Will anyone please answer this question? What should happen to poor people who can't afford insurance? Who pays? All of us, or none of us?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

10 years to produce enough to cover 10 weeks of Obamas deficits. And that's only if it meets expectations.

Over ten years, the net effect of this bill will be a relatively slight reduction in the deficit. The goal Obama stated for this bill was to not increase the deficit (that is, he wanted it to pay for itself). It was never sold as an important deficit reduction measure--at least not directly. I believe the wording Obama used was something to the effect that he wanted a bill that wouldn't raise the deficit a nickel. The CBO estimates that this bill fits that criterion.

(The idea is that indirectly all our other economic problems will be greatly exacerbated if we hadn't reformed health insurance. Of course, the more important goal was to clean up health insurance practices and substantially address the problem of the uninsured.)