Congratulations to my fellow Democrats

[FlamingMoe]

Yes. Because if you did, you'd support those who did care about the uninsured.

******* insanity is what this statement is. Is it possible for you to comprehend that even though we may care about the uninsured, we don't see government as having the authority to enact this piece of garbage? A belief regarding the proper role of government says not one word about whether or not one cares about someone else.

******* insanity.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Yes. Because if you did, you'd support those who did care about the uninsured.

False dichotomy fallacy, appeal to emotion.

You assume that people who care about the worlds biggest democracy going into receivership are less than compassionate.

 

[Unabogie]

Wow, didn't I just say something about anti-HCR folks saying some really stupid things? Are you serious, SoT?

Sadly, 90% of the opposition to this bill seems to be based on pure fantasy. From "health care for illegals" to "pays for abortions" to "death panels" to "job killing taxes", it just seems like the RWM is intent on lying its viewers into a froth over non-existent provisions and fear.

Of course, that is all about to change when people see the benefits...

 

[thaiboxerken]

******* insanity is what this statement is. Is it possible for you to comprehend that even though we may care about the uninsured, we don't see government as having the authority to enact this piece of garbage? A belief regarding the proper role of government says not one word about whether or not one cares about someone else.

******* insanity.

How would you ensure the health care of those who can't afford it?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Wow, didn't I just say something about anti-HCR folks saying some really stupid things? Are you serious, SoT?

You tell me?

This will not end well.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

How would you ensure the health care of those who can't afford it?

There best hope lies in staying in a 1st world country.

There is two ways to do this. They can refrain from moving to a undeveloped or developing country. Or they can keep the country they are in from economic collapse.

 

[Unabogie]

How would you ensure the health care of those who can't afford it?

I asked my GOBagger neighbor this question, when he said he wanted to repeal Medicare becuase "the government shouldn't be in the business of health care".

I asked "so what should happen to old people who don't have money to buy insurance?"

He said "I don't know" and that was the end of it.

 

[corplinx]

I think that was one of the problems. Certainly there are many more that could be addressed, and I hope they will be. You can't solve all the problems at once. But universal coverage is a big, big deal. Ask the Europeans.

Problem: Cost is too high
Solution: Make it illegal for insurance companies to turn people away. Force everyone to buy insurance under penalty of fines.

That, is not a great start. It doesn't even begin to really address the underlying issues in my opinion. They are treating the most tangential symptoms of the real problems that poll best. Insurance companies don't have a lot of fans.

 

[thaiboxerken]

There best hope lies in staying in a 1st world country.

So you assert the USA is not a 1st world country? Do 1st world countries have universal health care?

 

[Unabogie]

There best hope lies in staying in a 1st world country.

There is two ways to do this. They can refrain from moving to a undeveloped or developing country. Or they can keep the country they are in from economic collapse.

What? This is in no way a position on policy. It's frankly gobbledygook. I'll ask again.

What should happen to people who don't have money to buy health care?

 

[WildCat]

Wait... you completely understand the entire bill?

Do you? Does anyone who supports it? People actually seem to be under the impression that this bill will give all Americans comprehensive health insurance. It won't.

If you can't afford insurance now, you probably won't be able to afford it in 2014 either. But don't worry, you'll be able to buy a policy that only covers catastrtophic illnesses!

Most other uninsured people would be required to buy insurance through one of the new state-run insurance exchanges. People with incomes of more than 133 percent of the poverty level but less than 400 percent (that’s $29,327 to $88,200 for a family of four) would be eligible for premium subsidies through the exchanges.

Premiums would also be capped at a percentage of income, ranging from 3 percent of income to as much as 9.5 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/your-money/health-insurance/22consumer.html

So you won't even be penalized if you can't afford a policy, and you may not qualify for a subsidized one either. But they'll allow you to buy a catastrophic illness-only policy!

Moreover, people of any age who cannot find a plan that costs less than 8 percent of their income would be allowed to buy a catastrophic policy that will be available for people under age 30.

Awesome! Remember when this bill was going to prevent all kinds of illnesses because people would be going to the doctor and getting regular checkups? Not going to happen under a catastrophic policy!

If they bother buying even that... after all there won't even be a tax penalty unless you can find a policy for $200/month (if you're a single person making $30,000), and good luck at that. Especially since premiums are going to skyrocket in the next few years.

 

[MattusMaximus]

You tell me?

This will not end well.

You might have something there... or, you would if your claim was at all grounded in reality. You seem to be neglecting the pesky little fact that the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office has projected that this legislation will actually significantly decrease the national debt over the next couple of decades.

You fail.

Btw, the third vote (on the reconciliation bill) is taking place now

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

What should happen to people who don't have money to buy health care?

Where are all your social programs plus this ginormous new entitlement you addicts have voted yourselves going to go if the federal government suddenly has to pay just one percent more interest to finance it's deficit and existing debt?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You seem to be neglecting the pesky little fact that the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office has projected that this legislation will actually significantly decrease the national debt over the next couple of decades.

And people said a forum full of athiests wouldn't understand faith.

 

[Unabogie]

Where are all your social programs plus this ginormous new entitlement you addicts have voted yourselves going to go if the federal government suddenly has to pay just one percent more interest to finance it's deficit and existing debt?

Come on. We're talking about in your Glibertarian Utopia, where everyone has gone Galt, and none of this awful Socialism is in place. What should happen to a poor person who gets sick? Who pays? All of us, or none of us?

 

[MattusMaximus]

And people said a forum full of athiests wouldn't understand faith.

I'll take this inane comment as an admission on your part that you have no serious rebuttal to my point about the CBO projections.

You fail²

 

[FlamingMoe]

How would you ensure the health care of those who can't afford it?

Any answer I would give to this query has no bearing whatsoever on the point I made previously. Do you or do you not have the intelligence to comprehend that a belief regarding the legitimate authorities of government is (or at least can be) wholly divorced from the prospect of caring about the uninsured?

 

[Malerin]

What's to stop someone from gaming the system by paying the $700 and not getting insurance until they come down with a serious illness, where they now can't be turned away?

 

[MattusMaximus]

It's done - reconciliation just passed

 

[thaiboxerken]

Any answer I would give to this query has no bearing whatsoever on the point I made previously.

Yes, it does. If you had a care, you'd have a plan. For some reason, of those opposed to the bill, the vast majority have no plan. Of those opposed, the only ones I see that have a plans are those Democrats who think the bill isn't a single payer system.