Biometric ID card for all working Americans?

[Thunder]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100319/pl_nm/us_usa_immigration

This is one of the ideas Phil Graham and Chucky Shumer have come up with, to keep illegals out of American jobs.

This basically puts the burden on workers, to PROVE we have the right to work here.

Shouldn't the burden be on the govt....to prove we DON'T have the right to work in the USA???

If all drivers licenses required a birth-certificate or Green Card, and maybe even a biometric fingerprint, we wouldnt need a new Federal workers ID.

As a third generation born American, I'm a little offended by the idea of having to prove I have the right to work in my own country.

 

[WildCat]

The problem with the bill is it assumes that employers don't know they're hiring illegal workers. They won't be swiping any cards.

Any immigration reform has to be based on going after employers of illegal immigrants. In a serious way, not a small fine or some other wrist slap.

 

[The True Scotsman]

My experience has been that with every job I've held I've needed to proved my SS number. I'm not certain if this is federally mandated, state mandated, or a widely accepted company policy, but it seems to be pretty well in place just the same, as far as I've seen.

 

[Ducky]

The problem with biometrics can be extensively read about on Bruce Schneier's blog. By themselves, they are not a good solution.

 

[Thunder]

maybe Social Security cards should now have a pic and a biometric fingerprint? i got no problem with that.

i just don't want a NEW card...just to work in the USA. i was born with that right.

 

[INRM]

I think the SSN requirement is good enough. This would require every citizen to be fingerprinted. I don't think that's a good idea especially when most of us are not criminals.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

This basically puts the burden on workers, to PROVE we have the right to work here.

Shouldn't the burden be on the govt....to prove we DON'T have the right to work in the USA???

As a third generation born American, I'm a little offended by the idea of having to prove I have the right to work in my own country.

i just don't want a NEW card...just to work in the USA. i was born with that right.

Thousands of Americans are required to join organizations that exist completely outside of and independent from their potential employers in order to work in their chosen fields. These organizations then force these Americans to surrender a portion of their pay as membership fees.

No one should be able to deprive someone of their legal right to work.

 

[Thunder]

Thousands of Americans are required to join organizations that exist completely outside of and independent from their potential employers in order to work in their chosen fields. These organizations then force these Americans to surrender a portion of their pay as membership fees.

start a new thread, if you wanna rail against trade unions.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I thought this thread was about the right to work?

Are you opposed to "right to work" legislation?

 

[Travis]

I think the SSN requirement is good enough. This would require every citizen to be fingerprinted. I don't think that's a good idea especially when most of us are not criminals.

You think the fingerprints would be used maliciously?

 

[Region Rat]

My experience has been that with every job I've held I've needed to proved my SS number. I'm not certain if this is federally mandated, state mandated, or a widely accepted company policy, but it seems to be pretty well in place just the same, as far as I've seen.

Its a federal requirement. How else does the Social Security Administration know who you are for tax purposes?

 

[Region Rat]

As a third generation born American, I'm a little offended by the idea of having to prove I have the right to work in my own country.

I think your offense is more than a little unfounded. How in the world would anyone know just by looking at you that: 1) this is your country; 2) you are 3rd generation, and 3) you have the proper credentials (SS number) to work?

What in the world is wrong with providing positive ID?

 

[ktesibios]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100319/pl_nm/us_usa_immigration

If all drivers licenses required a birth-certificate or Green Card, and maybe even a biometric fingerprint, we wouldnt need a new Federal workers ID.

Umm... I had to provide a birth certificate to obtain a driver's license in Pennsylvania and again in California (also a thumbprint in CA). CA officially calls it "proof of legal presence".

Actually, I had to provide the BC just to get a learner's permit in PA.

I don't know if this is a Federal requirement, but since state DMVs work to maintain enough standardization between states to ensure that a driver trained in CA can drive safely in, say, Maine, it's probably a de facto nationwide standard.

My objection to a national work ID card is that it would effectively give the gummint the power to veto anyone's employment. The likely results of typical bureaucratic incompetence and the possible results of malice on the part of some pumped-up Jack-in-office aren't pretty.

 

[Kestrel]

My experience has been that with every job I've held I've needed to proved my SS number. I'm not certain if this is federally mandated, state mandated, or a widely accepted company policy, but it seems to be pretty well in place just the same, as far as I've seen.

Your employer is required to have your SS number in order to track taxes withheld from your income. Simply by looking at the tax collection data, the Federal government can figure out rather easily when an employer is hiring a large number of illegal aliens. This data has been used in the past to justify raids on factories and other worksites that hire a lot of illegals.

The problem is that a big raid can put the employer out of business. Citizens working there will lose jobs along with the illegals. Businesses in the community that sell goods and services or rent apartments to workers will start failing.

We don't need biometric ID's to determine who is a citizen. We already have the tools in place to figure this out. Forcing everyone to have a biometric ID is simply a way for the folks selling the new ID systems to make a lot of money.

 

[INRM]

Travis,

Why does the government need all our fingerprints unless we have been arrested for a crime? Normally fingerprints are only required if you own a gun, are a teacher, or have been arrested for a crime. I'm not a gun owner, nor a teacher, and I have never been arrested for a crime.

Additionally, where does it end? Will DNA be required eventually, all of us will have to be swabbed, the DNA scanned, and the data encoded into some kind of Biometric ID?

I think this is treating all Americans like they're criminals to deal with illegal immigration.

 

[Region Rat]

Travis,

Why does the government need all our fingerprints unless we have been arrested for a crime? Normally fingerprints are only required if you own a gun, are a teacher, or have been arrested for a crime. I'm not a gun owner, nor a teacher, and I have never been arrested for a crime.

Additionally, where does it end? Will DNA be required eventually, all of us will have to be swabbed, the DNA scanned, and the data encoded into some kind of Biometric ID?

I think this is treating all Americans like they're criminals to deal with illegal immigration.

I was not fingerprinted when I got my CDW license (in KY).

 

[balrog666]

SSN's are not unique and are mandated (ha!) not to be used for identification purposes.

 

[Thunder]

why should i care if my SS number is used for ID purposes?

 

[drkitten]

SSN's are not unique and are mandated (ha!) not to be used for identification purposes.

Er, no. SSNs are indeed to be used for identification purposes, which is why they were issued in the first place.

What are not to be used for identification purposes are the SS cards, because even when they were printed, the government recognized that they were trivial to forge.

It's like my account number at the local library. Hell, yes, it's used to identify me. It's how they know I'm me. I also have a card, with a number, at the local gym. Again, it's how they know I'm me, and they also use it to track when I've paid and send me a bill every so often.

But no one's going to let me buy a beer or rent a car or anything if I show them my library card. And no one should let me buy a beer or rent a car if I show my social security card, either.

 

[Checkmite]

This is one of the ideas Phil Graham and Chucky Shumer have come up with, to keep illegals out of American jobs.

This basically puts the burden on workers, to PROVE we have the right to work here.

Shouldn't the burden be on the govt....to prove we DON'T have the right to work in the USA???

No...because it's not the government that usually wants to know; it's your prospective employer. And there's no possible way they can know that you have the right to work in the USA; which means that yes, the burden of proof is yours.

Mostly this involves checking a box that says "yes, I am allowed to work here" and submitting a social security number, and signing a caveat at the bottom of the application that says "if my boss finds out I lied on this application he can fire me and I'll like it".