When does an embryo / fetus become human, and why?

Mr Clingford said:
The argument:
Life begins at conception.
You shouldn't kill.
Abortion is killing and therefore wrong.

Both premises can be challenged by atheists and theist alike.
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Ok sure, 'life' is growing inside the female but it hasn't taken a breath and is not human then, however he or she has a soul. If aborted that soul hasn't had a chance to do wrong. He or She goes straight to heaven like a child, its the 'Satanist's' that are against abortion.

Belz... said:
So before the heart beats there's no soul ?
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In my view no, a soul cant be in a body that doesn't have a beating heart to keep the body and brain alive.

Belz... said:
Should I care about what the bibble says ?
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Do you care about the air you breathe? the only time you complain is when your not getting enough.
 
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Why all the questions on a soul when its not the topic and regardless of it being religious. Its my opinion and your asking for evidence when you dam well know nothing will satisfy your needs till you die.

Stick to the topic instead of picking apart a post and diverting it again.
 
rorylee said:
Why all the questions on a soul when its not the topic and regardless of it being religious. Its my opinion and your asking for evidence when you dam well know nothing will satisfy your needs till you die.

Stick to the topic instead of picking apart a post and diverting it again.
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you brought up the soul, and i wondered what you ment with it.
it seems to be very important, especially when its involved in deciding when a embryo is a human beeing.
 
DC said:
you brought up the soul, and i wondered what you ment with it.
it seems to be very important, especially when its involved in deciding when a embryo is a human beeing.
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It was brought up in the first post and its important in any human.
 
DC said:
so what is it exactly? where is it, how does it work?
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Of interest is that there is no clear religious answer to this question, even within any particular religion.

The Catholics lurched back and forth about whether human ensoulment took place

  • prior to fertilization (ie: sperms have souls as a homunculus - called [preformationism] - the historical reason Cahtolics consider contraception sinful)
  • at fertilization (never a popular Catholic belief, probably because it is the dominant Protestant belief)
  • at the start of the third trimester (the belief in the vegetable, animal and human souls being created at the beginnings of each trimester to form a [tripartite soul] - this was the original Catholic belief, but was replaced by [preformationism] after a misidentification in microscopy - the Catholic church should have reverted to third trimester human ensoulment, but the need for growth probably created pressure to invent reasons to continue arguing for sperms' sacredness rather than reverse policy on contraception)
 
rorylee said:
In my view no, a soul cant be in a body that doesn't have a beating heart to keep the body and brain alive.
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That's convenient. Since you seem very knowledgeable about how souls work, can you tell me what they're made of and what they actually do ?

Do you care about the air you breathe? the only time you complain is when your not getting enough.
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Okay, seeing as this has nothing to do with what I asked I'll do so again:

Should I care about what the bibble says ?
 
rorylee said:
A big turd. you don't need a toilet where your soul is heading.
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According to Christians, perhaps. Please provide evidence that Christianity is MORE true than Buddhism.

nothing will satisfy your needs till you die.
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That's a cop-out. Why don't you answer his question, instead ?

Also, since I don't have a soul, dying won't satisfy me, either.
 
because i answer stupid questions with stupid answers. get back to the topic, its simple!!! yet its posing a great deal of a challenge for some.
 
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rorylee said:
because i answer stupid questions with stupid answers. get back to the topic, its simple!!! yet its posing a great deal of a challenge for some.
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Actually, if you answered stupid questions with smart answers, you wouldn't look so silly.

Also, please provide evidence that Christianity is MORE true than Buddhism.
 
you if didn't ask the stupid questions you wouldn't look silly to me to start off with, resulting in a stupid answer to which i dont care how i look.

Also, please provide toilet paper, so i can take a **** in your toilet. keep it on topic hey? like i said, a challenge for some.
 
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I think discussions like this actually drag the entire debate down to a level it should never get to. Because the fact is that after a normal pregnancy period, the likely result is a healthy, intelligent human being. It will be more than what it is now. Arguing that it's ok to kill it, NOW, rather than ... NOW + 1, seems to me to be nothing more than very poor rationalizing. Semantics, nitpicking.. you name it. I am not sure of the correct term, but it strikes me as loads of all that. It will be a human being, if allowed to develop. People just use the physical details in order to rationalize away and lessen their conscience with regards to it, IMO.

I also want to point out that I do now consider myself pro-choice. I would not change existing laws or anything of the sort. It's too late to put that toothpaste back in the tube. I just don't like it, at all, and I hope that one day we, as a people, really wake up to how horrible it is what we are doing, and CHOOSE to stop doing so.
 
rorylee said:
you if didn't ask the stupid questions you wouldn't look silly to me to start off with, resulting in a stupid answer to which i dont care how i look.
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Please try to keep up. _I_ didn't ask the question, someone else did.

Also, do you not care about looking stupid so long as someone ELSE looks stupid ? Well, way to go about going for the common denominator.
 
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