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UselessWords.org

Hokulele said:
All movements in the bowel lead to something that is objectively real, unlike the mind and intuition.
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You have to distinguish between the mind and intellect, because they are two completely different things. The first is the thought that is subjective, the second is the intuition, which is not thought but it is objective reality (example: a law that a scientist discovers).
 
So is this thread about how words are useless if you don't string them together meaningfully? Or just that they're useless when trying to get through to someone who's convinced they've found the ultimate answer to the ultimate question about life, universe and everything?
 
sPyan-ras-gzigs dban said:
You have to distinguish between the mind and intellect, because they are two completely different things. The first is the thought that is subjective, the second is the intuition, which is not thought but it is objective reality (example: a law that a scientist discovers).
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That would make no sense in Italian either.Intuition is objective reality?
 
sPyan-ras-gzigs dban said:
You have to distinguish between the mind and intellect, because they are two completely different things. The first is the thought that is subjective, the second is the intuition, which is not thought but it is objective reality (example: a law that a scientist discovers).
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And you have to distinguish between reality and make-believe. A subjective perspective is all well and good as long as you understand that it does have limitations and does not necessarily apply to the real world. For example, I believe chocolate ice cream tastes better than strawberry, but this does not lead inevitably to the objective conclusion that chocolate ice cream is better than strawberry. Similarly, you may believe the very stars have a meaning to their existence that is directly tied to humanity (subjective), but that does not mean that the stars do have any objective meaning.
 
Mirrorglass said:
So is this thread about how words are useless if you don't string them together meaningfully? Or just that they're useless when trying to get through to someone who's convinced they've found the ultimate answer to the ultimate question about life, universe and everything?
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They are useless because they are useless for the minds.

Consciousness is only in the intellect, which also reads words unnecessary, but without the trick of the mind. The intellect are the answers.
 
Hokulele said:
Similarly, you may believe the very stars have a meaning to their existence that is directly tied to humanity (subjective), but that does not mean that the stars do have any objective meaning.
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But they can also have it. Looking and looking with the mind, sooner or later comes the intuition that to understand the meaning of the thing.
 
sPyan-ras-gzigs dban said:
But they can also have it. Looking and looking with the mind, sooner or later comes the intuition that to understand the meaning of the thing.
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"Can" does not mean "does". Once again, you are using two different definitions of the word "meaning" to arrive at some irrational conclusion. This is known as equivocation and does not make your argument correct.

Understanding how something works does not require a belief in some underlying grand purpose.

I can't remember the details off the top of my head, but in V.S. Ramachandran's book Phantoms in the Brain, he talks about people who have this mindset, where the universe and everything in it has significance. Too much so.
 
sPyan-ras-gzigs dban said:
Intuition = objective reality

thought = subjective reality
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OK, this is another problem, you are using your own definitions of objective and subjective, placing them both within a single sentient individual. It doesn't really work that way. For example, if it is raining outside, not only do all the sentient beings agree, but there is also evidence that does not rely on sentience (rocks changing color as they get wet). Here is a better breakdown of how it works.

I believe something is true, others may or may not agree. = Subjective
I believe something is true, others generally agree. = Inter-subjective
I believe something is true, others generally agree, even non-sentient things demonstrate consistency with this point of view. = Objective
I believe something is true, no one else agrees. = Loony
 
Mirrorglass said:
So.. the objective reality is something that comes to the mind with meditation, not the world we can observe around us?
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The objective reality is in the intellect. The mind does not make it visible because it creates the thought that is subjective. The continuous use of the mind, however, can lead to intuition (moment of perception of objective reality). Meditation is the state in which being identified with the intellect (objective reality) and not the mind (subjective reality).

The observation of the world usually happens with the mind, so everything that you look and say is subjective, and then everyone says, and describes the same thing but differently.
 
sPyan-ras-gzigs dban said:
The objective reality is in the intellect. The mind does not make it visible because it creates the thought that is subjective. The continuous use of the mind, however, can lead to intuition (moment of perception of objective reality). Meditation is the state in which being identified with the intellect (objective reality) and not the mind (subjective reality).

The observation of the world usually happens with the mind, so everything that you look and say is subjective, and then everyone says, and describes the same thing but differently.
Click to expand...

So how do you know your intuition is real and not just another subjective thought?
 
Hokulele said:
I believe something is true, others may or may not agree. = Subjective
I believe something is true, others generally agree. = Inter-subjective
I believe something is true, others generally agree, even non-sentient things demonstrate consistency with this point of view. = Objective
I believe something is true, no one else agrees. = Loony
Click to expand...

When you're in the intellect, there is no more "I believe". Everything you said is right but in the realm of the mind. The existence of the law of gravity, for example, is something that everyone is saying true, but only after the first one that he understood as the existence of a law is always a being who has meditated (in this case, for a moment ), after his mind has searched and searched. Only in this case the thing becomes an object, because he lived inside of that being as a real thing (he sensed that this law exists), and then becomes a intuition for all.
 
Mirrorglass said:
So how do you know your intuition is real and not just another subjective thought?
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Because there is no thought,in this condition that can last only a moment, that thing you're sensing the living and just, you become that thing. Just for the moment when you are intuition, then, come back in mind and built using the words, with the memory in mind what you guessed.
 
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