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Firefighters for 9/11 Truth

Lenbrazil said:
I wrote the following for another forum in April 2009 so the numbers are a bit out of date but the rest still holds:

Firefighters for 9/11 Truth and its supporters believe that firefighters are better qualified than the general populace to evaluate the collapses of the WTC buildings.
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Um....firefighters are more qualified than Architects and Engineers..to discuss the collapses of the WTC? I didn't realize that the FDNY required Masters degrees in engineering and architecture.

and...um...what percent of the FDNY are members of Firefighters for 9-11 Truth?

.01%? .001%?

hmmmm.......;)
 
Edx said:
According to the website there is an FDNY firefighter there:

Jim Osorio said:
:
Jim Osorio, LFD Rescue 1 - Acting Rescue 5 FDNY N/A
"I responded to this horrific incident with my fellow firefighters, and will always remember this and will never forget my brother and sister firefighters who responded and paid the ultimate sacrifice."
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Anyone know anything?
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November 26, 2002 To the family and friends of Firefighter Michael Fiore I express my condolences in your loss, even though I did not know him I'm sure he will be missed in the fire department.

Lt. Jim Osorio
Livingston Fire Department
~
Jim Osorio,
Livingston, New Jersey
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LFD.. livingston fire department..."acting rescue 5"....

From the Livingston FD Website:

Just prior to September 11, 2001, the department took delivery of its' second aerial piece, a 93-foot American LaFrance Ladder Tower. Just days after the wet-down, the terrorist attacks of 9/11 shocked the world. In the aftermath that followed, the department's rescue truck covered mutual-aid assignments for FDNY's Rescue 5, based at the Clove Street Station on Staten Island. Rescue 5 had responded to the World Trade Center, losing 11 of 12 men that rode that day. Engine 5 from the Circle Station also covered for FDNY as they worked at Ground Zero, answering calls from the Watkins Street Station in the Brownsville Section of Brooklyn.
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Livingston FD contributed a great deal to the FDNY. However, Mr. Osorio was not a member of the FDNY nor was he at ground zero.
 
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I have a question regarding his statement:

Jim Osorio said:
Jim Osorio, LFD Rescue 1 - Acting Rescue 5 FDNY N/A
"I responded to this horrific incident with my fellow firefighters, and will always remember this and will never forget my brother and sister firefighters who responded and paid the ultimate sacrifice."
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Please forgive me for my semantics here, but it was my understanding that there were not any female firefighters that perished on 9/11.
 
BigAl said:
My recollection is that it is just one person, a FF in the Seattle (?) FD and he's been told not to use his association with a real Fire Dept to promote his woo.

All he knows is what he's been told to watch on YouTube. Virtually nobody that was an eyewitness to the actual collapse says there was anything man-made-ish about how it fell. That would be hundreds of firemen.
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Yes, there were actually 2 firefighters in Seattle. I filed a FOIA request to verify their employment.

Turns out, they were in fact firefighters for the Seattle Fire Department, but the response was something along the lines of "The Seattle Fire Department does NOT share their same views and opinions as they do. SFD has the utmost respect and admiration for the FDNY, and honors them as the true heroes of 9/11"

Something along those lines. I wish I had saved those emails. I also understood that they have been told that they are NOT to use their positions with the SFD to promote any of their inside ideas.
 
BTW, I noticed in some of the FF911T (sic) postings, it points out NFPA 921.

The problem is, I see that they quotemined NFPA 921. They do say that explosives should be investigated. Yes, but it also says, specifically, that thermite is an accelerant, and its effects would be "visible to the naked eye."

I don't have an online copy that I can C&P from. I will try to find one and post it.
 
Mr.Herbert said:
I have a question regarding his statement:

Please forgive me for my semantics here, but it was my understanding that there were not any female firefighters that perished on 9/11.
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This is true. On 9/11, only 28 females were firefighters with FDNY. None died on 9/11. They (IMHO) are referring to the relatives and family that were left behind.
 
triforcharity said:
This is true. On 9/11, only 28 females were firefighters with FDNY. None died on 9/11. They (IMHO) are referring to the relatives and family that were left behind.
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I think there were some other female first responders, EMT's maybe, who died. Let's not get into a sexist quag here boys.
 
sylvan8798 said:
I think there were some other female first responders, EMT's maybe, who died. Let's not get into a sexist quag here boys.
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I was only referring to the firefighters statement on the truther site that "sisters" paid the ultimate sacrifice. I'm questioning this mans honesty and knowledge of 9/11... In no way am I attempting to diminish the countless heroic actions of the women first responders.

:)
 
triforcharity said:
BTW, I noticed in some of the FF911T (sic) postings, it points out NFPA 921.

The problem is, I see that they quotemined NFPA 921. They do say that explosives should be investigated. Yes, but it also says, specifically, that thermite is an accelerant, and its effects would be "visible to the naked eye."

I don't have an online copy that I can C&P from. I will try to find one and post it.
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If you register at NFPA.org, you can view the NFPA standards for free (including previous versions).
 
Yeah, but I cannot search it, or Cut and Paste it.

I asked my LT. if he had a copy of it on CD that I could use. He's gotta contact the training department.
 
why again are sooo few personnel of the FDNY, members of Firefighters for 9-11 Truth?

oh yeah, I forgot, Truthers think the FDNY are cowards and co-conspirators.
 
240-185 said:
0.9 %.
1 out of 110.
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how many FDNY are there?

how many of them are members of Firefighters for 9-11 Truth?

.1% of the FDNY would be 11 members. are there 11 FDNY in this group?

and btw, .1%...is 1 out ot 1,000....not 100.
 
Jim Osorio is not FDNY... are there any other members of this woo group that claim to be FDNY?

I found two signatures on their petition that have retired FDNY members. Other than that, there are not any current FDNY members on their petition.

There is also this person:

Jim Lundberg,
"I saw the dust and smelled the sulfur. There is no way that was a natural collapse."

No mention of what department he works for.
 
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If I recall correctly there are around 11,000 uniformed FDNY members and maybe a couple thousand additional Paramedics. If you want to consider two signers who are retired then you'd rightfully have to include ALL living retired FDNY members. Either way the percentages appear vanishingly small.
 
On top of all of that, there's something else comtemptible about these "Fill-in-the-Blank-Profession For 9/11 Truth" organizations: They're wrong. They peddle the same myths, the same distortions, the same lies that all the other truther groups do. Being in the minority is respectable as long as the cause has reason instead of illusion and distortion behind it. But that's not been, nor ever has been the case with 9/11 conspiracy fantasists.

Funny how some things don't change. I ranted about this just over a year ago:
ElMondoHummus said:
Oh for the love of God!...

I said it before in this very thread, and I'll say it again: It's not who they are, it's what they say! And regardless of their postgraduate education and training, if they are supporting the PF911T and AE911T claims, then they are supporting issues that are demonstrably false. Their degrees do not matter. Their professions do not matter. Only what they say!

Until evidence is brought up that departs from the usual misrepresentations and outright fabrications that these Fill-in-the-blanks for 9/11 Truth groups have indulged in previously, then there's nothing new here. Nothing new at all! Historical fact is not undone by a list of fans professing beliefs demonstrably counter to reality, and engineering concepts are not undone by a list of people stating misconceptions. The only way to change the narrative is to demonstrate that the alternate narrative is true. And conspiracy peddlers have utterly failed to do that!

So it doesn't matter to me who is on any given list anymore. Without rational argument or new evidence, then there is nothing in a list of substance at all! Nothing!

As I said before: Give me a witness who's come out and said he or she personally witnessed an aspect of the "Inside Job" - and no, don't try to recycle all those other refuted examples from the past, I mean a real participant - and we'll talk. Give me someone who's found not something that has to be misinterpreted, but something concrete and confirmable, and I'll listen. But give me "Highly Respected People 'X' Believe In 9/11 Truth", and I'll rightly tell you to piss off and not waste my time. Because they need evidence, not belief, to get me to reanalyze my stance. THEIR PROFESSION OR SOCIAL STANDING MATTERS ZERO TO ME. ONLY CLEAR EVIDENCE. Without that, I don't care if it's Einstein, Bohr, and Hawking for 9/11 Truth, I don't care if it's The Pope for 9/11 Truth, and I don't care if it's US Presidents for 9/11 Truth! I only care about evidence. Period. Anything short of that is a failed argument, and I am not going to be swayed with an Appeal to Popularity.

That's the end. Close the damn thread; there's nothing more here to discuss.
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Different group, but same principle. I'm as unimpressed by Firefighters for 9/11 Truth as I am about AE911T, PF911T, and any others. Their groups names change, their claims don't. So their groups names don't matter one bit.

ETA: Heh! Actually, that 2009 rant of mine above was preceeded by a long one I made in 2008. I didn't remember that. Truthers absolutely are doing nothing but going around in circles.
 
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