"Intelligence is Self Teaching" A paranormal experience into A.I and Intelligence.

[WWHP]

"Intelligence is Self Teaching" A paranormal experience into A.I and Intelligence.

This link is found on the front page of Reddit/Science.

http://www.realitysandwich.com/intelligence_self_teaching

The article is a personal account of an experience on Ayahuasca, where the purported 'spirit' of the plant appears to communicate a definition of intelligence itself - and the intention appears to be that "Intelligence is Self Teaching" could be refined into a perfect definition of a very elusive term in neurobiology, psychology, A.I., Philosophy of Mind and mathematics.

The article does prove clearly that it is a completely original phrase and proposition, and then plays with the idea that it may be the point of view on intelligence to 'nature' itself.

Considering that ayahuasca is itself a classic 'paranormal' experience - it seems to me that ayahuasca either produces some form of communication with 'spirit' as claimed or at the very least very valuable for completely original thinking and clarity.

 

[Trent Wray]

Is this essentially saying that hallucinagenic plants are actually trying to speak to us and communicate to us by causing the hallucination?

 

[Limbo]

Hey Trent you remember the other day I said you should do ayahuasca?

It's probably not that the plant is actually trying to speak. It's that a part of the mind takes on a symbolic form and interacts with the ego-self during the ASC. We project it and it looks like spirit to us, but it's not so simple. It's a part of our psyche that we interact with. It's like what I was talking about the other day with how UFOs are projections. Same sort of thing but on a much larger scale.

 

[Nonpareil]

Oh, Limbo has two new friends now. It's turning into a regular New-Age Potheads Anonymous meeting in here.

 

[Trent Wray]

The article does prove clearly that it is a completely original phrase and proposition, and then plays with the idea that it may be the point of view on intelligence to 'nature' itself.

Considering that ayahuasca is itself a classic 'paranormal' experience - it seems to me that ayahuasca either produces some form of communication with 'spirit' as claimed or at the very least very valuable for completely original thinking and clarity.

Also, are you saying that the idea "intelligence is self-teaching" is a "revelation" that could have only resulted from the use of ayahuasca, and is not something a person could think of on their own?

Hey Trent you remember the other day I said you should do ayahuasca?

It's probably not that the plant is actually trying to speak. It's that a part of the mind takes on a symbolic form and interacts with the ego-self during the ASC. We project it and it looks like spirit to us, but it's not so simple. It's a part of our psyche that we interact with. It's like what I was talking about the other day with how UFOs are projections. Same sort of thing but on a much larger scale.

Yes but you're still claiming the hallucination is really happening, correct? In the case of a UFO --- the UFO is actually there and multiple people are making it happen as a sort of folie a deux so to speak?

There is where I say that you'd have to prove experimentally that you can make a hallucination real.

 

[Limbo]

Yes but you're still claiming the hallucination is really happening, correct? In the case of a UFO --- the UFO is actually there and multiple people are making it happen as a sort of folie a deux so to speak?

Oh yes it's really happening. Whether more than one person can interact with the thought-form is another story.

There is where I say that you'd have to prove experimentally that you can make a hallucination real.

No problemo. Just loan me a million dollars and I will use the money to assemble a small army of Buddhist monks to create a tulpa. I'll pay you back after they win the MDC.

 

[Trent Wray]

Oh yes it's really happening. Whether more than one person can interact with the thought-form is another story.




No problemo. Just loan me a million dollars and I will use the money to assemble a small army of Buddhist monks to create a tulpa. I'll pay you back after they win the MDC.

Oh, so you have to be a certain level of believer in order to conjure a UFO. And you need to have financial incentive to make the UFO appear.

That actually explains just about every UFO sighting: takes a certain kind of believer and financial incentive to make one "appear".

Seriously ... what would it take to produce "psi" or a UFO, in your opinion, for an experiment to work and prove what you already think to be true?

 

[Limbo]

Oh, so you have to be a certain level of believer in order to conjure a UFO. And you need to have financial incentive to make the UFO appear.

That actually explains just about every UFO sighting: takes a certain kind of believer and financial incentive to make one "appear".

Seriously ... what would it take to produce "psi" or a UFO, in your opinion, for an experiment to work and prove what you already think to be true?

Don't jump to conclusions. The money is not to give the monks incentive. The money is for travel and housing costs while the monks practice group meditation and get to know each other a little bit. I'm thinking a few hundred monks for a few months or so.

 

[Trent Wray]

Don't jump to conclusions. The money is not to give the monks incentive. The money is for travel and housing costs while the monks practice group meditation and get to know each other a little bit. I'm thinking a few hundred monks for a few months or so.

Yes but where are these monks when all the paranormal activity is going on in the US? We still see UFO's and tables dance across the floor and mothmen and all of that ... and we don't have monks focussing to make that happen. Are you saying that what happens here are hoaxes?

You see my point?

 

[Limbo]

Yes but where are these monks when all the paranormal activity is going on in the US? We still see UFO's and tables dance across the floor and mothmen and all of that ... and we don't have monks focussing to make that happen. Are you saying that what happens here are hoaxes?

You see my point?

Yeah I see your point. I think most "spirits" and "UFOs" are psychically projected unconsciously by an entire culture. But if you want to do it deliberately and broadcast the results before the globe as evidence, then you need a psychic army to overcome the global sheep-goat effect.

 

[Trent Wray]

Yeah I see your point. I think most "spirits" and "UFOs" are psychically projected unconsciously by an entire culture. But if you want to do it deliberately and broadcast the results before the globe as evidence, then you need a psychic army to overcome the global sheep-goat effect.

Okay .... so how many do you need in the army?

Do you believe the Philip Experiment was legit? Was there an army present?

How about the "War of the Worlds" broadcast where listeners thought that an ACTUAL alien force had invaded the US?

Do you see the many holes in the theory? I could easily say an army wasn't needed in several supposed paranormal events. What distinguishes them? In my mind ... if you really want to nail down "how to manifest the paranormal practically" you will have to be prepared to experiment and toss out theories that don't hold up. And then, as the other thread suggests .... how practical is it? If we need an army to bend a spoon, who cares? If the UFO will crash or disappear, who cares? What's the use? Fireworks are cheaper and instant fun.

So, as a side note, are you saying there is no need for an experiment because of the sheep-goat effect on the forum? Why don't you video-tape yourself having a psi experience, or publically list your visions or whatever and see what happens then, if you experience this regularly ... and think about how to settup the video so as to rule out the hoax effect

 

[Limbo]

Okay .... so how many do you need in the army?

Do you believe the Philip Experiment was legit? Was there an army present?

How about the "War of the Worlds" broadcast where listeners thought that an ACTUAL alien force had invaded the US?

Do you see the many holes in the theory? I could easily say an army wasn't needed in several supposed paranormal events. What distinguishes them? In my mind ... if you really want to nail down "how to manifest the paranormal practically" you will have to be prepared to experiment and toss out theories that don't hold up. And then, as the other thread suggests .... how practical is it? If we need an army to bend a spoon, who cares? If the UFO will crash or disappear, who cares? What's the use? Fireworks are cheaper and instant fun.

So, as a side note, are you saying there is no need for an experiment because of the sheep-goat effect on the forum? Why don't you video-tape yourself having a psi experience, or publically list your visions or whatever and see what happens then, if you experience this regularly ... and think about how to settup the video so as to rule out the hoax effect

If you want solid definitive paranormal evidence to present to the entire world, then you need a small psychic army, imo. If you want the evidence to be so strong that it destroys skepticism, then you need a small psychic army to overcome the psi of every skeptic in the world who becomes aware of the evidence. Otherwise the sheep-goat effect will sabotage the evidence retrocausally.

On the other hand if all you want is solid paranormal evidence for yourself, so that you can know, then you don't need a small psychic army because you aren't going up against the psi of every skeptic in the world. You see?

 

[dafydd]

If you want solid definitive paranormal evidence to present to the entire world, then you need a small psychic army, imo. If you want the evidence to be so strong that it destroys skepticism, then you need a small psychic army to overcome the psi of every skeptic in the world who becomes aware of the evidence. Otherwise the sheep-goat effect will sabotage the evidence retrocausally.

On the other hand if all you want is solid paranormal evidence for yourself, so that you can know, then you don't need a small psychic army because you aren't going up against the psi of every skeptic in the world. You see?

No such thing as a "psi".

 

[Trent Wray]

If you want solid definitive paranormal evidence to present to the entire world, then you need a small psychic army, imo. If you want the evidence to be so strong that it destroys skepticism, then you need a small psychic army to overcome the psi of every skeptic in the world who becomes aware of the evidence. Otherwise the sheep-goat effect will sabotage the evidence retrocausally.

On the other hand if all you want is solid paranormal evidence for yourself, so that you can know, then you don't need a small psychic army because you aren't going up against the psi of every skeptic in the world. You see?

Then come up with an experiment that each one of us can do on our own and then we'll report back so we don't have to go up against the psi of every skeptic ....

 

[Sunsneezer]

Funny how the author of the article keep using the word "medicine" as if he wanted to avoid the bad connotation of the word "drug".

Things that only happened to be true in your own, substance-influenced mind can be considered original thinking indeed. So original, in fact, it is not even restricted by reality or logic. That's hallucinogenics for you. All you get from them is vague wisdom you could read from a bad book and a posteriori rationalized nonsense. Taking drug-enhanced perceptions as face-value revelations is a very efficient way to become delusional.

 

[WWHP]

Is this essentially saying that hallucinagenic plants are actually trying to speak to us and communicate to us by causing the hallucination?

Well it's certainly saying that is what the experience is 'like'. I am still perplexed by it all to make a valuation of any certainty.

 

[WWHP]

Oh, Limbo has two new friends now. It's turning into a regular New-Age Potheads Anonymous meeting in here.

Not sure what is new age about a tradition that goes back a few thousand years.

 

[WWHP]

Also, are you saying that the idea "intelligence is self-teaching" is a "revelation" that could have only resulted from the use of ayahuasca, and is not something a person could think of on their own?

No, I am not making that claim, however the article does show that it is likely that it was a completely original proposition, and was not previously 'stumbled' upon previously. It was however a revelation that appeared to come from a internally speaking plant spirit, which is actually quite a common occurrence from reports on Ayahuasca.

The supernatural may not be real, but it most certainly is a 'real' experience

 

[WWHP]

Then come up with an experiment that each one of us can do on our own and then we'll report back so we don't have to go up against the psi of every skeptic ....

I suggest if one is interested in what the 'experience' is like - to simply take ayahuasca - and then deconstruct it from there. Ayahuasca shows there is some merit in the claims, i.e., if you experience spirits talking to you, it is reasonable to claim spirits are talking to you.

 

[WWHP]

Funny how the author of the article keep using the word "medicine" as if he wanted to avoid the bad connotation of the word "drug".

Your paranoid a bit here. Ayahuasca is called 'medicina' in the amazon and is actual medicine with a consistent efficacy. Calling it a 'drug' per your usuage would be confusing to it's utility, and 'drug' is just another name for medicine anyway - your internal semantics has it's own emotional reality going on apparently.

Things that only happened to be true in your own, substance-influenced mind can be considered original thinking indeed.

This reads very confused to me. Are you suggesting that original thinking is not possible on hallucinogenic drugs? The history of science would contradict that and your statement is not supported by the body of evidence.

So original, in fact, it is not even restricted by reality or logic.

If you are correct, then 'Intelligence is Self Teaching" would not be logical. Since it holds a logical form and offers completeness, you need to provide some logical commentary yourself for your POV to hold any sort of relevance in this discussion.

That's hallucinogenics for you. All you get from them is vague wisdom you could read from a bad book and a posteriori rationalized nonsense.

Like I mentioned previously, this is an emotional statement and is not supported by the vast body of evidence on the matter.

Taking drug-enhanced perceptions as face-value revelations is a very efficient way to become delusional.

A perception must stand on it's own to have any validity and it's origins are irrelevant. Considering the Francis Crick discovered his insight into the DNA molecule on LSD, Carl Sagan admitting that some of his best ideas came to him while high on Marijuana, your ideas about neuro-chemistry seem a bit outdated and more importantly philosophically irrelevant and misleading.