Toddler Dies After Mistaking Gun For Realistic Wii Controller

[Madalch]

A few points:
1) Us "NRA gun nuts" wouldn't argue that the child should be armed.

Then you're clearly not a real gun nut.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

I can understand and agree with outrage that this was allowed to happen. What I can't agree with was that it was the presence of the gun in the house that was the primary thing to be outraged about.

I don't see any specific outrage against having a gun in the house but outrage against irresponsible storage of the gun and a realistic toy gun. There are definitely ad hominem attacks against the NRA in this thread and I would not be shocked to discover some participating in this thread hold that view, but I have not interpetated anything stated yet to be this.

 

[sadhatter]

from the article:



I wonder where he got that statistic. I tried Googling but got a billion conflicting hits.

I really , really hate that ****ing statistic.

Yes a lot of people who have guns, are people who live in the country ( i live in the country btw,), and those people tend to need a bit of chlorine in the gene pool than some other segments of the population. But a smart person isn't going to start blasting at some random noise in their house. Stupid people are always going to do stupid things, that dons't mean the rest of us should have to pay for it.

I honestly, could not see a single situation, barring some catastrophic mechanical failure that would cause me to shoot anyone who didn't want to do me harm. And i am sure most people who own guns and are on this site would be able to make the same statement.

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Ponder,
I agree. I find it ridiculous that no charges are being filed. Yes, with kids, accidents happened, sometimes tragic ones. But when they are so extremely preventable, and when the parents are so irresponsible, then I feel it falls into the realm of child neglect. They first off went out of their way to order the most realistic looking gun online, then let their toddler play with it, getting used to the idea that guns are toys, and then they left a loaded gun with the safety off in reach of said toddler.

I suppose the feeling is that whatever guilt the parents have is punishment enough, so there's no point in charging them. But since when is that how the legal system works? I've seen plenty of news stories with drunk drivers who kill someone and who feel such honest and overwhleming remourse that they are put on suicide watch. But guess what? They're still on suicide watch IN JAIL.

 

[I Ratant]

Passing thru Radio Shack just now, I saw a Wii "shooter gun" for sale. Looking a lot like the standard semi-automatic pistol, but white.
And Googling for "shooter gun" shows several variations for games.
Is 3 an appropriate age to learn to shoot?
I doubt it.

 

[WildCat]

And what video game gives you points for shooting yourself?

In Call of Duty, World at War in the online game you get points for blowing up yourself and an enemy with a grenade, and in one map you can jump off a cliff and die to complete the "Sayanorra" challenge.

 

[rwguinn]

Passing thru Radio Shack just now, I saw a Wii "shooter gun" for sale. Looking a lot like the standard semi-automatic pistol, but white.
And Googling for "shooter gun" shows several variations for games.
Is 3 an appropriate age to learn to shoot?
I doubt it.

at age 3, my son learned to respect and leave firearms alone unless I or my wife were present, including the cork gun he got-which he insisted on storing in the locked gun safe.
On his 5th birthday, he brought his "Ol Betsy" cap gun to me to put in the safe, because his buddies "Keep pointing it at people"
At age 8. he reminded a couple of old timers about proper safety and the handling of firearms when somebody else ("my daddy") was down-range. They were properly apologetic, to him, and to me.

Next question?

 

[I Ratant]

And your school for barely sentient children for learning safety with firearms is located where?
And the cirriculum, and the costs, and where would everyone sign up?

 

[BenBurch]

at age 3, my son learned to respect and leave firearms alone unless I or my wife were present, including the cork gun he got-which he insisted on storing in the locked gun safe.
On his 5th birthday, he brought his "Ol Betsy" cap gun to me to put in the safe, because his buddies "Keep pointing it at people"
At age 8. he reminded a couple of old timers about proper safety and the handling of firearms when somebody else ("my daddy") was down-range. They were properly apologetic, to him, and to me.

Next question?

Good job.

But you HAVE a gun safe and you did the responsible thing.

I got rid of my firearms when my first child was born, because I did not want to find out if a mischievous child could get into a gun safe.

How many gun owners are RESPONSIBLE gun owners?

I am betting the minority.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I'll agree that "barely sentient" just about describes a 3 year old. Now I'm not against hammering the rules into them using a cork gun as a prop, but that's about as close I'd put guns and 3 year olds. I'm not sure teching them shooting games is that ok at that age, and leaving a loaded gun around even less so.

 

[Drudgewire]

How many gun owners are RESPONSIBLE gun owners?

I am betting the minority.

There are between 50-80 million gun owners in the United States.

You get a tiny handful of stories like this every year.

Remind me not to take you to Vegas with me.

 

[Cavemonster]

There are between 50-80 million gun owners in the United States.

You get a tiny handful of stories like this every year.

Remind me not to take you to Vegas with me.

These figures are a little old-
http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

But 214 unintentional gun deaths of people under 19 a year is more than a handful.

1,078 gun based suicides.

I'm not supporting the contention that gun owners are largely irresponsible, but your representation isn't accurate either.

 

[rwguinn]

And your school for barely sentient children for learning safety with firearms is located where?
And the cirriculum, and the costs, and where would everyone sign up?

It is located in the homes of rational people. The curriculum is common sense and removal of irrational fear of tools. The cost is the surrendering of superiority complexes, self-righteousness, and realizing that even toddlers can learn the meaning of respect, and the word "NO!". It includes the payment of accepting responsibility, and realizing that lessons are not learned in one go, and the price in local monetary units of a secure gun safe, and the knowledge that an unlocked safe is not safe at all.
it is taught at one's parent's knee.
But intellects and personalities so far advanced from us "gun nuts" couldn't pay the price for it.
Failure to pay the tuition has results similar to (or worse than) that of the OP.

 

[Cavemonster]

and the price in local monetary units of a secure gun safe, and the knowledge that an unlocked safe is not safe at all.

This is key.
But it seems that more than 40% of gun owners interviewed in North Carolina who have children don't lock up their guns where their children can't reach them.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117480&page=1

Would you be against laws requiring gun safes?

 

[fuelair]

NRA gun nuts would argue the way to prevent children from accidently shooting themselves is make sure that they're armed

No, that is not what they or any other functional adult gun owner (I am not NRA myself) would say. They would, I am very certain, to a person say that the idiot who allowed/caused this to happen should be arrested, charged and prosecuted for negligent homicide.

We "gun nuts" tend to respect firearms and not place them where children or the incompetant can easily get their hands on them. This type of responce (yours) is why a number of us may seem to lack any respect for the non-weapon/anti-weapon persons - the nuts on the other side. By the way, please note I said "seem to lack".....


Oh, the NRA position, I am pretty sure, is the best way to keep children from accidentally shooting themselves is to either have our guns on our person in a secure holster and safety on or have any gun stored in a very secure location that cannot be reached by younger children and cannot be broken into by older ones. No system is perfect, but.......

 

[Cavemonster]

No, that is not what they or any other functional adult gun owner (I am not NRA myself) would say. They would, I am very certain, to a person say that the idiot who allowed/caused this to happen should be arrested, charged and prosecuted for negligent homicide.

We "gun nuts" tend to respect firearms and not place them where children or the incompetant can easily get their hands on them. This type of responce (yours) is why a number of us may seem to lack any respect for the non-weapon/anti-weapon persons - the nuts on the other side. By the way, please note I said "seem to lack".....


Oh, the NRA position, I am pretty sure, is the best way to keep children from accidentally shooting themselves is to either have our guns on our person in a secure holster and safety on or have any gun stored in a very secure location that cannot be reached by younger children and cannot be broken into by older ones. No system is perfect, but.......

You sure about that?
I'm not sure you speak for the "gun nuts"
http://gunowners.org/sk0404.htm

Parents are told they need to put trigger locks on their guns. Or that they must store their ammunition separately from their firearms. Or that they must store the weapons in a safe.

But many times, locking up your safety in any of those ways can be deadly. Americans use guns almost 50,000 times every week to defend themselves or others. And in most of those situations, a trigger lock would give criminals the advantage.

 

[fuelair]

You sure about that?
I'm not sure you speak for the "gun nuts"
http://gunowners.org/sk0404.htm

Just a quick question: do you believe the 14 year old should have had access to the gun or not - in the specific situation as described - and assuming it was described with complete accuracy? And, if your answer is no, how do you justify the deaths of the two children?

 

[Arus808]

at age 3, my son learned to respect and leave firearms alone unless I or my wife were present, including the cork gun he got-which he insisted on storing in the locked gun safe.
On his 5th birthday, he brought his "Ol Betsy" cap gun to me to put in the safe, because his buddies "Keep pointing it at people"
At age 8. he reminded a couple of old timers about proper safety and the handling of firearms when somebody else ("my daddy") was down-range. They were properly apologetic, to him, and to me.

Next question?

My nephew learned about guns at age 3. father is a police officer; he knew that guns were not safe. When asked about any type of gun (toy or real), he simply stated : "Only for papa".

He's now going to be 6 this year. He now reminds his daddy when he gets home from work to make sure to put his gun away in the private room (its his study, where he keeps his gun safe).

 

[BenBurch]

There are between 50-80 million gun owners in the United States.

You get a tiny handful of stories like this every year.

Remind me not to take you to Vegas with me.

Just because you are irresponsible, that does not mean that a accident happens.

I knew a guy (a cop) who used to leave his gun with his gear hanging on the hook in the bathroom. Had a 3 year old who got into everything. Handcuffed his little friend to the fence once. Never a gun accident even though there clearly could have been something awful...

The 3 year old is now 30.

 

[GreNME]

Just because you are irresponsible, that does not mean that a accident happens.

I knew a guy (a cop) who used to leave his gun with his gear hanging on the hook in the bathroom. Had a 3 year old who got into everything. Handcuffed his little friend to the fence once. Never a gun accident even though there clearly could have been something awful...

The 3 year old is now 30.

That's fine, but that's still an anecdote. Is there a collection of data that points to most gun owners being irresponsible? I'm open to the possibility that it could be true, but I've never seen it sufficiently supported with evidence.

Mind you, I'm in favor of gun regulations, but mostly to the tune of proper enforcement of regulations that already exist. I tend to view gun regulation law similar to how I view animal rights/welfare laws, as both debates have a lot of similar arguments with only a few wording changes.