Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[DOC]

Yes. of course. I've presented this multiple times now. But I'm happy to.
http://www.tripatlas.com/videoplay/E0onf1-eC1A

I noticed there is no quote marks in the sentence where the word invented was used and there is quote marks in other places. From what I remember of the video he used the wording guessed and not invented. I definitely remember him giving the opinion "Luke guessed wrong." But even if he did use the wording invented the census it is just an opinion of one person, where many other scholars disagree.

 

[Lucian]

Did you see my post? I provided it. It also has the actual video.
That should make you happy. A transcript and video of a leading scholar on biblical exegesis basically calling Luke a liar.

Phew, thanks. For a second, I thought I'd had a very odd hallucination, and had just imagined that quote and link. My memory must also be going, because I could have sworn they'd mosied their way through the thread before.

 

[joobz]

Phew, thanks. For a second, I thought I'd had a very odd hallucination, and had just imagined that quote and link. My memory must also be going, because I could have sworn they'd mosied their way through the thread before.

It has. But I figured at 11,000 posts, it was time to recycle it.

 

[joobz]

I noticed there is no quote marks in the sentence where the word invented was used and there is quote marks in other places.

DO you like looking like an idiot? The video is part of that link. You are free to watch the word "invent" fly out of the priest's mouth. The rest of your post is meaningless given your inability to be honest.

 

[DOC]

Did you see my post? I provided it. It also has the actual video.
That should make you happy. A transcript and video of a leading scholar on biblical exegesis basically calling Luke a liar.

Sir William Mitchell Ramsay would disagree.

 

[joobz]

Sir William Mitchell Ramsay would disagree.

He's nearly 100 years dead....


dead wrong that is.

(see what I did there..)

 

[DOC]

DO you like looking like an idiot? The video is part of that link. You are free to watch the word "invent" fly out of the priest's mouth. The rest of your post is meaningless given your inability to be honest.

So are you saying that you have "heard" this priest (who is still a priest as far as we know) give an opinion about Luke using the word invent.

 

[Lucian]

It has. But I figured at 11,000 posts, it was time to recycle it.

Oh, absolutely. I didn't mean to suggest that you were being repetitive. This thread is a model of recycling. I just thought DOC might have forgotten that his appeal to O'Connor's authority had been countered already.

 

[DOC]

He's nearly 100 years dead....


dead wrong that is.

(see what I did there..)

So what is the evidence that Father O'Connor has that Sir William Mitchel Ramsay didn't have.

 

[Hokulele]

Cool! Since we are re-spamming posts and points that have long been dealt with...

So then you knew about all of these facts I brought in before you started to read the thread?

All of these "facts", most of which have been refuted, don't even support your premise. But just for fun, here we go:

Sir William Mitchell Ramsay calling gospel writer Luke a great historian,

Discussed here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5093485#post5093485

Oxford professor Thomas Arnold's statement regarding the evidence of Christ and the Resurrection.

Discussed here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2659155#post2659155

The Moral Argument,

Although there are bits and bobs of discussion about this, the best summary of this in all its forms is here:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-arguments-god/

The Cosmological Argument,

Discussed (ad nauseum) here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4984792#post4984792

the fact that there is over 5000 New Testament manuscripts in existence compared to 7 for Plato and 20 for famous Roman Historian Tacitus.

Discussed here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5042421#post5042421

The fact that there are 41 written sources for the life of Christ (31 Christian + 9 non-Christian) compared to 10 written sources (9 non-Christian + 1 Christian) for the life of Tiberius Caesar, the emperor during the life of Christ.

Discussion on the 9 non-Christian sources for the life of Christ (ignoring the 31 Christian sources as it is using the NT as evidence for the NT, yellow flag, 15 yard penalty, repeat 3rd down):

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3279037#post3279037

Ignoring the bit about Caesar as being a meaningless tu quoque.

Christianity had spread all the way to Rome by peaceful means and Nero blamed the Christians in Rome for the Roman fire in 64 ad.-- 31 years after the death of Christ.

Well, this is the closest thing to being a fact (at least the bit about Nero). Of course, most of the credit can go to Paul who, as we all know, never met Jesus in person. At best, he had some sort of visionary experience. I would say this point is more evidence that Paul was convincing than what he believed had any basis in truth. Of course, many people have tried to use the spread of Christianity as an argument of its truth, but that rarely ends well, as can be seen here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94853&page=3

Jews have been converted to Christianity because of Isaiah Chapter 53 and at least one writer has claimed there are 25 fulfilled prophesies in that one chapter.

Refuted here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4705438#post4705438

And here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4708185#post4708185

And here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4720381#post4720381

Most archaeologists believe Jesus' 1st century tomb is most probably directly under the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

Partially discussed here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5124142#post5124142

More discussion here, with much more detail about any archeological support of any biblical story:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4997467#post4997467

11 apostles suffered a martyrs death in spite of the fact it was recorded they acted cowardly and uncertain before the resurrection.

Discussed here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4664470#post4664470

And a big reason some of these get repeated is that they are needed to give a complete response to some skeptics who keep asking the same questions or bring up the same points.

The same questions are repeated because these arguments have all been refuted, and just like a Weeble, they keep coming back up again.

And most interestingly, none of these "facts" have much to do with the "evidence" laid out in the OP. Of course, those were dealt with pretty much on page 1.

 

[joobz]

So are you saying that you have heard this priest (who is still a priest as far as we know) give an opinion about Luke using the word invent.

No. I"m saying I've heard this Dominican priest, who is a leading authority on St. Paul and Professor of New Testament at the École Biblique in Jerusalem, say that Luke invented the census story.

As could you if you follow the link. But for some reason, you seem reluctant to do so....

 

[Hokulele]

So what is the evidence that Father O'Connor has that Sir William Mitchel Ramsay didn't have.

Nearly 100 years of scholarship. Are you admitting you didn't watch joobz' video?

 

[joobz]

Cool! Since we are re-spamming posts and points that have long been dealt with...

I remember that Episode. It was one of my favorites.


DOC Thread: Now in Syndication!

 

[Lucian]

So are you saying that you have "heard" this priest (who is still a priest as far as we know) give an opinion about Luke using the word invent.

Yes, he's a Dominican priest. Yes, I assume he has faith in Jesus's divinity. And, yes, I believe Joobz is saying quite clearly that Murphy-O'Connor has said quite clearly that Luke invented the census.

By the way, do you mean Jerome Murphy-O'Connor rather than Jerome Murray O'Connor?

 

[Lucian]

No. I"m saying I've heard this Dominican priest, who is a leading authority on St. Paul and Professor of New Testament at the École Biblique in Jerusalem, say that Luke invented the census story.

As could you if you follow the link. But for some reason, you seem reluctant to do so....

Oh, I remember this bit, there's going to be a reference to a dial-up connection, isn't there? And a request for a transcript.

 

[joobz]

Oh, I remember this bit, there's going to be a reference to a dial-up connection, isn't there? And a request for a transcript.

and don't forget the "If it's important, why aren't there more pages on it.."

 

[Lucian]

and don't forget the "If it's important, why aren't there more pages on it.."

Miley Cyrus must be really important then. I wonder what her take on the census is?

 

[DOC]

Nearly 100 years of scholarship. Are you admitting you didn't watch joobz' video?

Then why if he is he still a priest believe Christ is divine if he has access to 100 years of scholarship.

And I did watch the video months ago and I remember him giving the opinion that Luke guessed wrong.

 

[joobz]

Then why if he is he still a priest believe Christ is divine if he has access to 100 years of scholarship.

Don't know, don't care.

Luke made up stories and therefore "Did not tell the truth".
QED.

 

[Hokulele]

Then why if he is he still a priest believe Christ is divine if he has access to 100 years of scholarship.

Grammar, learn it, love it, live it.

But to address what I think your point may be, he is clearly demonstrating that his belief relies on faith, not evidence. I have no problem with people holding on to faith-based beliefs, but I do have a problem with those same people expecting me to believe them as well.

And I did watch the video months ago and I remember him giving the opinion that Luke guessed wrong.

Ah, so we can now label everything you post as "opinion" and dismiss it that way? Got it.