The Daily Show tonight 3-8-10

godofpie

Chief Cook & Bottle Washer
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Pardon me for going off topic for a moment. The USPS press release for the stamps describes her compassion. I personally think it is insane to use the word compassion to describe someone who refused to give any pain medication of any kind to any patient who was ever treated by her hospice. She variously described suffering as a gift from God and a blessing. A person whose religious devotion prevents her from offering even an aspirin to a patient screaming in pain is not compassionate.
 
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/01/31/atheists-outraged-over-a-stamp-honoring-mother-teresa/

I saw a teaser for this today. It will be on tonight. Is this really the battle the "Freedon From Relgion Foundation" should be choosing to fight? FWIR Mother Teresa was not personally very religious.

If your basing your opinion on the news article, it seems to me to be even dwelling on faith as she did shows she was hugely religious. Why, if you aren't religious, would it occur to you to even question what you are examining? Her faith was a motivation for what she did down to her very core, both for what she did well and what she did badly.

After all, what would a person with any rationality wonder when they believe whole-heartedly in god and then have to wade through the suffering she saw, where god was seemingly completely absent? A person of less faith than she would just shrug it off as reality somehow overpowering god (but not on Sundays). Her faith required her to embrace it completely as god's will. As you know, an atheist has no religious problem with it at all, just a compassionate one.
 
GodofPie, if you wanted a more detailed discussion of this topic, you probably should have included a longer title. There may be people here at JREF who do want to discuss the wisdom of protesting a MT stamp, but they won't open this thread.
 
"Mother" T was an evil, pernicious, lying, hypocritical, deceitful, religious nut. But I say give her a stamp. What difference does it really make. She will soon be called a saint but, if there is any justice in the Universe (which I sincerely doubt), it will make no difference to her burning in Hell for eternity (or until the Apocalypse when she will rise from her grave as the Bible is somewhat contradictory on this matter).

IMHO only of course. :cool:
 
I'm against honoring The Ghoul of Calcutta.

Is this a fight atheists should pick?
Maybe not if our goal is to be popular and "go along to get along."
But that would mean staying silent and not pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes.
I can't object when atheists do this. And it's not because Mother Theresa was religious. I have lots of respect for MLK for example even though I'm an atheist.
 
Are there so few accomplished Americans that the USPS has to turn to Albanians with Indian citizenship? I really see no reason to give her space on a U.S. stamp.
 
I've been making pizzas all day and this the first chance I have had to check in on this thread. Once again it appears that I have leaped and not looked. I will do some more homework on MT before I respond further.
 
Of all the possible objections, that one seems silly. Are against honoring any non-American with a stamp as a matter of principle?

Somewhat. Near as I can tell there have been fewer than 16 non-Americans on U.S. postage stamps. I personally wouldn't have put Churchill on a U.S. stamp, but can see why others would have. I can understand arguments for Dag Hammarskjold , but I see no real reason for any of the following:
Sun Yat-Sen
Giuseppe Garibaldi
Fra Fillippo Lippi
Andre Ketesz
Francis of Assisi
Tomas G. Masaryk
Ignacy Jan Paderewski

In summary, do I consider MT to be among the 16 most important non-Americans to have lived in the past 200 years? No.
 
Regardless if she was a bad person or not.. there are more pressing issues and this is not a wise battle to pick.


There is an upside. We'll soon see a response from William Donohue.
 
Somewhat. Near as I can tell there have been fewer than 16 non-Americans on U.S. postage stamps. I personally wouldn't have put Churchill on a U.S. stamp, but can see why others would have. I can understand arguments for Dag Hammarskjold , but I see no real reason for any of the following:
Sun Yat-Sen
Giuseppe Garibaldi
Fra Fillippo Lippi
Andre Ketesz
Francis of Assisi
Tomas G. Masaryk
Ignacy Jan Paderewski

In summary, do I consider MT to be among the 16 most important non-Americans to have lived in the past 200 years? No.

I see. Personally, I wouldn't rule out non-Americans per se, but I looked up the criteria and it is the first one mentioned, to whit:

Stamp Subject Selection Criteria
The U.S. Postal Service and the members of the Citizens' Stamp Advisory Committee (CSAC) have set certain basic criteria used in determining the eligibility of subjects for commemoration on all U.S. stamps and stationery. These criteria first were formulated about the time of Postal Reorganization in the early 1970s, and have been refined and expanded gradually since then.

Following are the 12 major criteria now guiding subject selection:

1. It is a general policy that U.S. postage stamps and stationery primarily will feature American or American-related subjects.

2. No living person shall be honored by portrayal on U.S. postage.

3. Commemorative stamps or postal stationery items honoring individuals usually will be issued on, or in conjunction with significant anniversaries of their birth, but no postal item will be issued sooner than five years after the individual's death. The Committee will not accept or consider proposals for a subject until at least two years after his/her death. The only exception to the five-year rule is the issuance of stamps honoring deceased U.S. presidents. They may be honored with a memorial stamp on the first birth anniversary following death.

4. Events of historical significance shall be considered for commemoration only on anniversaries in multiples of 50 years.

5. Only events, persons, and themes of widespread national appeal and significance will be considered for commemoration. Events, persons or themes of local or regional significance may be recognized by a philatelic or special postal cancellation, which may be arranged through the local postmaster.

6. Stamps or stationery items shall not be issued to honor fraternal, political, sectarian, or service/charitable organizations. Stamps or stationery shall not be issued to promote or advertise commercial enterprises or products. Commercial products or enterprises might be used to illustrate more general concepts related to American culture.

7. Stamps or stationery items shall not be issued to honor individual federal agencies, cities, towns, municipalities, counties, primary or secondary schools, hospitals, libraries, or similar institutions. Due to the limitations placed on annual postal programs and the vast number of such locales, organizations and institutions in existence, it would be difficult to single out any one for commemoration.

8. Requests for observance of statehood anniversaries will be considered for commemorative postage stamps only at intervals of 50 years from the date of the state's first entry into the Union. Requests for observance of other state-related or regional anniversaries will be considered only as subjects for postal stationery, and again only at intervals of 50 years from the date of the event.

9. Stamps or stationery items shall not be issued to honor religious institutions or individuals whose principal achievements are associated with religious undertakings or beliefs.

10. Semipostal stamps are designed to raise funds for causes determined to be in the national public interest and appropriate. Semipostal stamps are sold for a price above their postage value. The differential between the sales price and the postage value of semipostal stamps consists of an amount (less a deduction for the Postal Service's reasonable costs) to be given to other executive agencies in furtherance of specified causes. The Postal Service issues semipostals in accordance with the Stamp Out Breast Cancer Act and the Semipostal Authorization Act.

11. Requests for commemoration of universities and other institutions of higher education shall be considered only for stamped cards and only in connection with the 200th anniversaries of their founding.

12. No stamp shall be considered for issuance if one treating the same subject has been issued in the past 50 years. The only exceptions to this rule are traditional themes such as national symbols and holidays.

Non-Americans are not ruled out, but most stamp designs are supposed to be related to America in some way.

She also arguably falls afoul of criteria 5 and 6 and 9.

So, there's 4 criteria that she arguably falls afoul of.
 
Looks like my school's local SSA group (the non prophets!) will be getting Dan Barker to speak at our school.

I think it will be 4/21.

If anyone local (cleveland) wants more info, let me know, and sorry for the derail.
 
I was a little bit surprised at the audience laughter at the hint that MT wasn't a particularly nice person, but then I guess I'm more aware of the criticisms against her than a random subset of TDS viewers would be. They treated the guy like he was crazy, when I wasn't finding much of what he was saying particularly objectionable. An interesting experience, as I tend to agree with them when they mock something.

They spun it into a conspiracy theory regarding the Catholic Church having it's evil hooks in the postal service, which was fairly amusing, that wasn't really what I heard the guy suggesting in the interview. More like "pandering to an interest group" than "Catholic conspiracy."
 
Looks like my school's local SSA group (the non prophets!) will be getting Dan Barker to speak at our school.

I think it will be 4/21.

If anyone local (cleveland) wants more info, let me know, and sorry for the derail.

Hey! I'm a member with the Cleveland Skeptics, via the internet, and I'm sure they would love this information. Have you joined their Meetup Group?
 

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