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Any proof of the existence of a self?

Nick227 said:
Do you use the expression "my brain?" If so, it would seem that you are not the brain but its owner.
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This sounds like it's an interpretation of what "my" means that is specifically biased to demonstrate the point you want to demonstrate, but does not convey what normal English speakers mean.

The "my" in "my brain" doesn't convey ownership in the sense you're trying to attribute, no more than "book's pages" conveys that the book owns the pages. It simply conveys which brain you're talking about, just as saying "book's pages" conveys which pages.
 
Brain = ME.

Change Brain = Change Me.

Let the human word games begin and not say anything when doing it.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
Brain = ME.

Change Brain = Change Me.

Let the human word games begin and not say anything when doing it.

Paul

:) :) :)
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What it's like, just being a (useless) observer of the ride a brain/body is taking?
 
I want to see how me, a brain, typing now, is not self.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
It goes back to the Big Bang, when it was determined that 13 billion years later, your brain would be exciting your fingers to punch those exact keys on the keyboard today.
Micro-managed determinism at work.
 
I Ratant said:
It goes back to the Big Bang, when it was determined that 13 billion years later, your brain would be exciting your fingers to punch those exact keys on the keyboard today.
Micro-managed determinism at work.
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Oh, didn't know it was predetermened, throw out the quantum stuff.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
yy2bggggs said:
This sounds like it's an interpretation of what "my" means that is specifically biased to demonstrate the point you want to demonstrate, but does not convey what normal English speakers mean.
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Well, it isn't for me so much related to the rest of the thread. So I don't see that I'm biasing here as there isn't for me such a big point to make. It was more that Paul stated "I am the brain." For me, if he also should use the term "my brain", not that he necessarily does, then there would seem to be an inconsistency. For me the term denotes a "virtual owner" of the brain.

The "my" in "my brain" doesn't convey ownership in the sense you're trying to attribute, no more than "book's pages" conveys that the book owns the pages.
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So, for you, stating say "Oh god, my brain hurts!", or something similar, does not denote ownership in the sense that there would appear to be someone who's brain is struggling?

For me, in saying "my brain" the brain creates for itself this sense of there being a virtual owner. This is what this "I" is - a virtual owner, virtual experiencer.

Think my brain is itself hurting now! :)

Nick
 
Paulhoff said:
I want to see how me, a brain, typing now, is not self.

Paul

:) :) :)
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Well, I experience the typing but my brain does not. It is just processing. That's one sense in which it is not a self. There are other contexts, I'd say, where it is.

Nick
 
Nick227 said:
Well, I experience the typing but my brain does not. It is just processing. That's one sense in which it is not a self. There are other contexts, I'd say, where it is.

Nick
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So, you are not a brain, funny.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Nick227 said:
So, for you, stating say "Oh god, my brain hurts!", or something similar, does not denote ownership in the sense that there would appear to be someone who's brain is struggling?
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Sure, but that's an idiom in English, and it's a metaphor. The suggestion is that your brain is working so hard it hurts, just like if you push yourself too far while running, your legs would hurt. But people who say this aren't saying that they experience a pain in their brains, as you actually recognize here. They are just metaphorically saying that they are struggling really hard about some mental task given them.

I see using a more complete phrase that is an idiom as fishing.
For me, in saying "my brain" the brain creates for itself this sense of there being a virtual owner. This is what this "I" is - a virtual owner, virtual experiencer.
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I don't think people are usually aware of their brains except as a theoretical object, so I think you're making this up. People do indeed generally know that they have brains, but there is no such thing as a sense of having a brain. It's factual knowledge, not experiential.
 
Paulhoff said:
I Ratant said:
It goes back to the Big Bang, when it was determined that 13 billion years later, your brain would be exciting your fingers to punch those exact keys on the keyboard today.
Micro-managed determinism at work.
Click to expand...
Oh, didn't know it was predetermened, throw out the quantum stuff.

Paul

:) :) :)
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You'll go with 'random', then.
 
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