VisionFromFeeling - General discussion thread

[Daylightstar]

I don't believe in my claim, I have not verified or falsified it yet.... Those of you who have any background in scientific research know that a test procedure is modified and improved upon in repeated trials to construct a set of testing conditions that best allow the research hypothesis to manifest what it can do.

Contrast this with your writings on your site:
"but most importantly of all, I know that it is the best type of test design for my claim of medical perceptions and I can never expect to be able to design a test that would be any easier for me to pass. Therefore the results of the paranormal test will conclude on the claim, and if I fail the test I will be proud to announce that the claim of medical perceptions through extrasensory perception is falsified."

What happened at the preliminary demonstration (to which you referred) was that you failed to demonstrate that particular claimed ability.
Consequently there was no reason to have a full scale test, you showed nothing worth testing.

Nothing has changed.
So much talk and nothing to show for it.

p.s. The preliminary demonstration was not about medical pereceptions. You were not supposed to demonstrate perceiving "health information".

 

[Akhenaten]

I don't believe in my claim, I have not verified or falsified it yet.

You hoodwinked the IIG into testing your claim for you, rather than do it yourself, and they falsified it conclusively and beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Why are you continuing to defend the indefensible idea that you have an unfalsified claim?

I still find reasons to investigate it further.

Nobody else finds those reasons to be legitimate, and in fact, it is only your deeming of them to be valid that really needs to be investigated, both for your own well-being and for the safety of the community at large.

Those of you who have any background in scientific research know that a test procedure is modified and improved upon in repeated trials to construct a set of testing conditions that best allow the research hypothesis to manifest what it can do.

Anyone with a background in anything can tell that:

1. You have no test procedure to modify or improve upon.

2. You can't carry out repeated trials until you do the first one, and you haven't.

3. You don't have a research hypothesis.

In the chemisty lab when a chemistry experiment fails, you can not conclude on the hypothesis as falsified just yet.

This has nothing to do with either your claim of having x-ray vision or with your multitude of other claims.

You study the impact of various laboratory parameters, such as temperature, concentration of reagents, or add a catalyst.

Irrelevant. All you have in your own case is an inert catalyst; dead in the water, so to speak.

 

[Uncayimmy]

I don't believe in my claim,

That is a lie. Long before you came here with your faux investigation, which we have learned is really just a grab for attention, you told the world, "I am blessed with what I at least perceive to be extrasensory perception and am able to experience matter, molecules, atoms, and various forms of light on my own without the use of instruments." This is when you were touring Poland giving lectures as Alenara the Breatharian.

In the chemisty lab when a chemistry experiment fails, you can not conclude on the hypothesis as falsified just yet. You study the impact of various laboratory parameters, such as temperature, concentration of reagents, or add a catalyst.

This is a ridiculous metaphor that has been resoundingly taken apart several times. What you are doing and claiming is not science in the least. It's fantasy at best and delusion/fraud at worst. There is nothing worth investigating here.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Hi VFF, my name is Trent

I haven't read every page of the thread, but I get the general idea I think. If you believe you have abilities of some sort, what do you attribute the origins of them to (if I may ask ...) i.e. natural, divine, etc? And I'm assuming that you might believe with practice, you can "hone" the ability or skill so to speak ... and this is why you continue to explore it? Is this correct?

As you have time

Trentwray, you should take the time to read what's already been written rather than ask her to once again write the same stuff. It's all been said many, many times before. The conclusion of many is that VFF is doing this for attention, and you're only contributing to the problem by asking her to tell the whole story yet again.

Stop by www.StopVisionFromFeeling.com to get the straight dope on her claims and all the test she has failed. If you really want to get the skinny on her perceptions, read this interview thread where she goes into excruciating detail. But before you do, be sure to check out her list of other claims. Understanding that she claims to be a non-human incarnation of the star Arcturus who has been seeing and talking to ghosts since she was a child provides context for her other claims that she, ahem, really doesn't believe.

 

[Ashles]

I don't believe in my claim, I have not verified or falsified it yet.

You have absolutely falsified it.
And you have changed the claim many times.

I still find reasons to investigate it further.

The reason is... desperate desire for some ability.
There are no other reasons.

Those of you who have any background in scientific research know that a test procedure is modified and improved upon in repeated trials to construct a set of testing conditions that best allow the research hypothesis to manifest what it can do.

Those of us who have a background in scientific research understand the importance of a set point of falsification.
You don't.

You will never agree a proper falsification scenario.

Every test suddenly turns into yet another examination of testing criteria...
Every test ends with a wide eyed... "Gosh, look, I didn't know that about my ability... guess I'd better set up another test to investigate further"

Which is all clearly rubbish as you started this whole sham claiming a staggering level of accuracy analysing a huge variety of medical conditions/materials.
A level of accuracy and ability long since forgotten.

In the chemisty lab when a chemistry experiment fails, you can not conclude on the hypothesis as falsified just yet. You study the impact of various laboratory parameters, such as temperature, concentration of reagents, or add a catalyst.

You had already agreed all the parameters.

You would not run a chemistry experiment in this way as no-one would know what the hell your experiment was actually trying to demonstrate.

Other than that you were convinced of the proposed hypothesis and no amount of negative results would convince you otherwise and you were prepared to waste the rest of your life altering parameters until you got the slightest indication that your hypothesis were true (and no matter if this were solely due to random chance due to the huge number of trials you ran using increasingly random parameter alterations).

Actually in many ways your analogy there of a badly run chemistry experiment exactly demonstrates your very poor knowledge of how to run a scientific experiment.

 

[Audible Click]

Hi VFF, my name is Trent

I haven't read every page of the thread, but I get the general idea I think. If you believe you have abilities of some sort, what do you attribute the origins of them to (if I may ask ...) i.e. natural, divine, etc? And I'm assuming that you might believe with practice, you can "hone" the ability or skill so to speak ... and this is why you continue to explore it? Is this correct?

As you have time

VisionFromFeeling thinks she's from Arcturus. This is not a joke she actually believes it and so she "thinks" she can do many amazing things, the list can be found here. http://stopvisionfromfeeling.com/

 

[Farencue]

Oh wow Derek, I see the IIG has a new best friend

 

[Ashles]

In the chemisty lab when a chemistry experiment fails, you can not conclude on the hypothesis as falsified just yet. You study the impact of various laboratory parameters, such as temperature, concentration of reagents, or add a catalyst.

Actually lets run some more with VFF's analogy.

The way VFF would run an experiment would be as follows:

A hypothesis is proposed as to how a chemical reaction will proceed.
The experimenter claims they have witnessed this chemical reaction occur exactly as proposed many, many times before.
In fact they would say they have never seen it not happen.
The experimenter agrees all the parameters and runs the experiment.

The reaction does not happen. The hypothesis is falsified.

The experimenter however claims that they have discovered that the room temperature was quite cold and this may have affected the reaction (never before mentioned).
The experimenter makes changes to the protocol.
The experimenter agrees all the parameters and runs the experiment.

The reaction does not happen. The hypothesis is falsified.

Then the experimenter says the thickness of the beakers (never before mentioned) may have affected the experiment.
The experimenter makes changes to the protocol.
The experimenter agrees all the parameters and runs the experiment.

The reaction does not happen. The hypothesis is falsified.

Then the experimenter says the reaction may require some catalyst (never before mentioned) in order to work.
The experimenter agrees all the parameters and runs the experiment.

The reaction does not happen. The hypothesis is falsified.

Then the experimenter says the colour of the jumper they are wearing may have affected the reaction...

etc
etc
etc


So VFF - if presented with such an unscientific experimenter, at what point would you explain to them that their hypothesis has been falsified and there is no logical reason to proceed further?

And how do you distinguish yourself from the hopeless case in my your own anology?

 

[desertgal]

I find it hard to believe that any serious studies of looking into people using magical MRI vision would only involve skinny people, in a country known to be experiencing an obesity epidemic. Were you specifically filtering out anyone who weighed over 120 lbs? I am pretty sure there are overweight people in Charlotte, NC. Heck, you probably have some in any number of classes you attend.

And, yet, Anita can glance at a black person for only a few seconds, and form 'perceptions' about the biological 'differences' between two entire 'races', i.e. 'black' people are internally "prettier" than 'white' people.

Go figure. Such an amazingly selective 'ability'.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Ashles, if we want to run with the analogy, it's more like this:

Scientist: Wow! Here's what I observed (blah blah blah). It shouldn't be possible, but it is! This is extraordinary, and it's never failed!

Colleagues: Yeh, we've been hearing these claims for thousands of years, yet every time we look into it, there's nothing that can't be explained by the ordinary and mundane. Have you ruled out the ordindary yet?

Scientist: Oh, it can't be anything ordinary. What I have here could potentially change your world (I'm not from earth, you see) and win me the Nobel Prize. Here's my theory (yada yada yada).

Colleagues: <collective head scratching> That's science fiction, and bad science fiction at that.

Scientist: Well, I've used this new form of mathematics with light to find cures for cancer. Well, I haven't actually proven them to be cures, but the math is right.

Colleagues: Uh...sure. Try this quick test.

Scientist: Okay. Wow! Check out these results!

Colleagues: Uh, that's not how you run the test. Do it like this.

Scientist: Okay. Hmm....It's not working anymore, and it gives me a headache. I'm not going to do these tests anymore, but my claim has not been falsified.

Colleagues: Funny. You didn't get a headache when it seemed to work. Anyway, try here's another really easy test. Give it a shot.

Scientist: No, because that's not my main claim.

Colleagues: But this test can falsify the larger claim.

Scientist: I would prefer a much more complicated test that will falsify all the "easy to falsify" claims.

Colleagues: Will you try this under these conditions if I give you everything you need at my expense?

Scientist: Sure!

Colleagues: How did it go?

Scientist: Well, I didn't finish because I need to change the conditions.

Colleagues: But you said the conditions were fine! Anyway, go ahead and change them. Passing won't prove anything, but failure will falsify the claim.

Scientist: I would, but it's going to cost $5, and I don't have that kind of money. Instead I am going to do a "study" on this.

Colleagues: Okay. Use this to record your data.

Scientist: That's brilliant! Only I am going to completely change it!

Colleagues: Now it's worthless!

Scientist: It's perfect! Here I go. Tra la la!

Colleague: What did you learn?

Scientist: Well, I learned more ways that my claims cannot be verified, but that hasn't falsified the claim.

Colleague: Actually, what you did was good enough to falsify. It just wasn't good enough to confirm. It's sort of like if you step on a structure and it breaks, you know it will never hold an elephant. If it doesn't break, it still might not hold an elephant.

Scientist: Wow! Here's a new observation! Only none of the other witnesses saw it because I didn't tell anyone until three days later.

Colleagues: You still around?

Scientist: I saw another scientist perform in front of a crowd and fail. That looks like fun! I'm going to do that.

Colleagues: What a waste of time, but it's your time. Why don't you try this, that and the other thing first?

Scientist: No. I am going to spend hundreds of dollars and fly to Hollywood to run my experiment. It's the best protocol ever!

Colleagues: Well, if your test fails, it falsifies the claim. If it doesn't fail, there's still plenty more research left to do.

Scientist: Oh, I expect to fail. And I promise that this time if I fail it will falsify all of my claims.

Colleagues: Sure...

Scientist: The experiment failed, but it actually revealed some very interesting things that I think are worthy of more study. My claims have not been falsified.

Colleagues: We must have ESP because we all saw this coming. You must be doing this purely for attention.

Scientist: No, not at all. BTW, did you see my new YouTube channel? And the new pictures I posted on my website? And the articles about me here, here, and here? Oh, did you see me in the audience for the latest experiment? Of course, now that I've witnessed an experiment, I can no longer conduct any experiments there. Gee, I wonder how I'll ever falsify my claim...

Colleagues: I'm sorry...did you say something? We're kinda busy with a one-armed chimpanzee that can supposedly predict the winners on American Idol.

 

[Marcus]

Alenara the Breatharian.

Hey, there is another claim fot the list, easy detection of golden yellow Prana.

Still waiting for Anita to respond to the list, I would honestly like to know if she currently supports those claims.

 

[LostAngeles]

Anita, I'm well aware of your attempts to contact me regarding doing a migraine test. The inbox is full because I'm busy and cranky.

Not now, please.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Anita, I'm well aware of your attempts to contact me regarding doing a migraine test. The inbox is full because I'm busy and cranky.

Not now, please.

Alright, thank you. Let me know if the time comes when you can find the time and feel up to giving it a try. It shouldn't take more than half an hour of your time and I can imagine is quite pleasant and not an inconvenience at all, besides I can buy you lunch as a thank you. You can't say no to that.

Then we either add falsifying data to this study of the migraine healing claim or you come out of it experiencing some of the similar dramatic improvement that the man I attempted to treat is still insisting that he had! I just e-mailed him again yesterday urging him to confess to a lie and assuring him that there would be no consequences if he did, but he is sticking to his story, so I need to either falsify that woo, or properly establish the ability if I have something to offer to migraine sufferers.

Let me know when the time is right for you. I can plan my next trip to Los Angeles around that. In the mean time please keep documenting your migraines unless you are already doing so. When they occur, date and time of day, duration, description of the migraine, its intensity, and other details such as pain sensations and areas affected and the treatment you are taking such as medication, so that any changes to your migraines coinciding with the time you receive an attempted treatment from me could be better understood in light of that information. You may of course keep your journal to yourself, but it is better if you describe any experience of coinciding changes based on your notes rather than from memory recall.

If you e-mail me I will let you get in contact with the man I attempted to treat earlier and who is making this claim that I might be able to offer relief to migraines, and you can ask him about his experience with me and prepare yourself for what I will do to you.

Anyone else with migraines? I would insist that volunteers be Skeptics because it makes for more reliable as well as responsible testing.

 

[GeeMack]

Anyone else with migraines? I would insist that volunteers be Skeptics because it makes for more reliable as well as responsible testing.

Offering to practice medicine without a license again. At your invitation...

Feel free to apply skepticism and call me a liar and a fraud.

... we have already determined that you're a liar and a fraud.

 

[desertgal]

Anita, I'm well aware of your attempts to contact me regarding doing a migraine test. The inbox is full because I'm busy and cranky.

Not now, please.

Apparently, "not now, please" means "spew forth" in Arcturan.

 

[Moss]

Then we either add falsifying data to this study of the migraine healing claim or you come out of it experiencing some of the similar dramatic improvement that the man I attempted to treat is still insisting that he had! I just e-mailed him again yesterday urging him to confess to a lie and assuring him that there would be no consequences if he did, but he is sticking to his story, so I need to either falsify that woo, or properly establish the ability if I have something to offer to migraine sufferers.

I see what you did there...

 

[bookitty]

Anyone else with migraines? I would insist that volunteers be Skeptics because it makes for more reliable as well as responsible testing.

Oh dear. Must we go through this again? I was so hoping to champion you as a bright new skeptic.

Your "migraine cure" is a laying on of hands, coupled with visualization. This is not an unknown or new woo. My family is Christian Scientist, add a little prayer and I have already tried this. It can work. The power of suggestion is a well-documented placebo effect. Which means that you are not removing any black areas, changing the brain or curing anyone. If, on the off chance there was some short term relief, you have only helped your victim's brain help itself. Anyone could do it.

Perhaps you disagree with above. In that case, I offer you a wager. Any results could come from chance, the normal fluctuations of migraine occurrence or bias on the part of the patient. Show me how you will prove that it is only your actions that cause change and I will offer myself as an unbiased skeptical subject.

I have kept records of my migraines for the last three years, including known or possible triggers.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Offering to practice medicine without a license again. At your invitation...

... we have already determined that you're a liar and a fraud.

GeeMack! I missed you! I love you! No, not practicing medicine. Testing a paranormal claim made by someone other than me and testing it with a Skeptic as the volunteer and also with other Skeptics present to witness and to document and to ensure that all takes place responsibly. I will ensure that this testing takes place within the boundaries of the law. No lies or fraud were detected in this proposal of inviting Skeptics into a migraine treatment test. But thank you for caring, I love you too.

 

[sleepy_lioness]

Sheesh. I suffer from migraines. Last spring-summer I was getting 1-2 a week of such intensity that I regularly missed work and I felt awful a lot of the time. I couldn't touch red wine or beer, and any alcohol at all was a gamble, as was going out in the sun without sunglasses on, or drinking coffee in the afternoon, or spending an extra hour in bed at the weekend, or getting overtired, or hungry, or having my period.

Then they tailed off, and between August and last week I didn't have a single attack. I didn't even bother avoiding the triggers. Then yesterday I was poleaxed by an awful one that came out of nowhere (other than drinking a glass of wine at lunchtime).

Thing is, Anita, migraines come and go. In fact it's part of their nature that they come in clusters. If you were any sort of scientist - we know you aren't - you'd understand this. Especially as it's been explained to you many, many times.

 

[LostAngeles]

Apparently, "not now, please" means "spew forth" in Arcturan.

I guess so, since there was another attempted PM today.

I will come to you when I am ready. In the meantime, I need to recover from the plague so I can to Vegas, so I can recover from work.

So stop trying to PM, please.