David Chandler Proves that Nothing Can Ever Collapse

Posting junk from youtube about buildings collapse, how anti-intellectual when coupled with the failed free fall speed.
There were no explosives, the source of your moronic delusions is the real conspiracy. After 8 years of not making progress on your fantasy, why do you spread lies, post moronic videos and fail to understand 911. David, after 8 years, is still anti-Bush and is pushing a delusion, a fantasy of explosives or thermite in the WTC towers? Do you have something to help save Davids paper published in a paranoid conspiracy theory inspired on-line Journal?

David's paper is about the towers, so you can stop the SPAM of WTC7 junk ideas.

David has problems with the dynamics of collapse.
http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2010/ChandlerDownwardAccelerationOfWTC1.pdf

Bet you forgot to read the paper. Maybe David can put it on youtube for you, he likes to put nonsense on youtube.
 
wow

So complaining about the fact that this paper in a supposedly peer-reviewed journal does not follow even basic scientific standards, which any sixth grader would know, is just moaning and groaning?

Really Tony? You have no idea why a 'peer reviewed' journal printed a 'paper' that completely overstates the basic level of precision of the 'measurements.' That is very sad. We learned this in high school. If you are measuring grainy youtubes to the "millimeter" it can only be in your imagination, because it doesn't appear in your "paper."
 
Tony blows it yet again

The deceleration of the upper section is indicative of the load it is applying. To apply twice the static load it must decelerate at twice the rate of gravity. To apply three times the static load it must decelerate at three times the rate of gravity, etc. It is that simple, and to say otherwise is nonsense.
Wrong again, Tony.

To reduce the downward acceleration of the upper section to zero, thereby stabilizing its downward velocity at some constant vector, would require F=mg of force, which is the static load. Note therefore that the static load corresponds to zero deceleration. To decelerate the upper section at 1g upward requires that same upward force again, for a total of twice the static load. To decelerate the upper section at 2g upward requires 3x the static load.

The only way a mass can be amplified to apply more force than it applies in a static state is to experience a deceleration greater than gravity during an impact. It is experiencing one unit of gravity in the static state where the force it applies is F = mg. To apply twice that load it needs to decelerate at twice that rate. This would be F = m x (2g).
Wrong again, Tony. As explained above, a deceleration of zero already requires force equal to the static load. Any actual reduction of downward velocity already implies an upward force greater than the static load. A deceleration of 1g requires twice the static load. A deceleration of 2g requires three times the static load.

I think you are confused by the initial static state.
I think some part of Tony's brain continues to believe that static objects are accelerated by gravity when they are at rest. He also appears to believe that constant velocity (i.e., zero deceleration) corresponds to free fall.

Whatever is going on inside Tony's head, he is demonstrating a shocking ignorance of freshman (or even high school) physics.
 
Wrong again, Tony.

To reduce the downward acceleration of the upper section to zero, thereby stabilizing its downward velocity at some constant vector, would require F=mg of force, which is the static load. Note therefore that the static load corresponds to zero deceleration. To decelerate the upper section at 1g upward requires that same upward force again, for a total of twice the static load. To decelerate the upper section at 2g upward requires 3x the static load.


Wrong again, Tony. As explained above, a deceleration of zero already requires force equal to the static load. Any actual reduction of downward velocity already implies an upward force greater than the static load. A deceleration of 1g requires twice the static load. A deceleration of 2g requires three times the static load.


I think some part of Tony's brain continues to believe that static objects are accelerated by gravity when they are at rest. He also appears to believe that constant velocity (i.e., zero deceleration) corresponds to free fall.

Whatever is going on inside Tony's head, he is demonstrating a shocking ignorance of freshman (or even high school) physics.

I fully appreciate that if you want to break it down you can say decelerating the falling object by 1g puts it at rest and in the state of a static load. The additional deceleration of 1g is then what causes the amplification to twice the static load. The total deceleration is 2g.

You are obviously just playing with words here because you don't have an argument against the fact that there was no deceleration and velocity loss in the fall of the upper section of WTC 1.

You are the one who doesn't understand physics. A static load is being decelerated by 1g to start with and you show that in your own words and then contradict yourself.

Finally the only issue is whether or not there was a deceleration of the upper section of WTC 1. There was not and no deceleration and no velocity loss means no dynamic load and the reality that something else must have been removing the strength of the columns in WTC 1.
 
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Tony,

Why don't you stop being a coward & intellectually dishonest, and start answering a couple of obvious issues.

... but the reality is that the upper section of WTC 1 did not decelerate. This means it could not have applied a dynamic load

Nonsense.

Simple force balance, Tony.

Any acceleration LESS THAN g implies an external force was being applied to the upper block. You have already accepted that the downward acceleration was only 0.7g during the first several seconds. This means that something was applying a net AVERAGE upward force of about 0.3mg, or about 17,000 tons, on the upper block.

With your crude measurements (and even if you'd analyzed every frame, instead of every 5th frame), you only can speak about average accelerations & average forces. You know absolutely nothing about instantaneous accelerations & forces, except that they are 100% guaranteed to be far, far higher than the averages.

It is an utter fool who suggests that a falling 50,000 ton block of concrete & steel cannot impart a dynamic load onto objects underneath it, because you cannot see a sudden impulse in the impacting body. The bigger the impacting body, the LESS you expect to see gross accelerations from impacts. By your silly assertion, the bigger something is, the less capable it is of producing a dynamic load.

That's nothing short of idiotic.

... and something else must have been removing the strength of the columns below, as they were designed to support several times the load above them.

They were designed to support that load ONLY when they were in the undamaged condition. Each & every top floor that is being impacted has been massively compromised and had its load carrying capability (even of the columns) reduced to about 1/10th to 1/100th of what it could carry prior to the damage. And this is true even if the load were placed carefully onto the columns, rather than dropped from several stories above.

The tilt has also been shown to be irrelevant here as it has been measured and shown not to cause the columns to miss. The tilt is quite small in comparison to the drop for the first several stories.

Both dishonest & dumb as a stump.

You don't need any rotation in order for the columns to miss each other. The debris alone guarantees that.

Any sophomore engineering student who says something this idiotic should switch majors. Any student who said this has proven that they have zero feel for engineering.

Same goes for you, Tony.

It looks like there is a very serious problem for the present official story on how WTC 1 collapsed, as the explanations put forth by the NIST and Dr. Bazant require a dynamic load to cause a collapse propagation. Well there isn't one.

Every single "impact" in the world, from atoms to cars to collapsing buildings to planets, requires "dynamic loads". There is no reason whatsoever, that the impactor or the impacted component suffer any measurable acceleration. Just like every single collision, the acceleration depends entirely on the ratio of F to m.

And like every object in the universe, the determinant of whether something breaks does NOT depend on force. Nor does it depend on average stress. It depends on local stress & energy absorption.

There is no problem at all with the NIST story. There is no problem with Bazant's theory.

There is a major problem with your understanding of simple, trivial mechanical engineering.


Tom
 
There is no problem at all with the NIST story. There is no problem with Bazant's theory.

There is a major problem with your understanding of simple, trivial mechanical engineering.


Tom

There are plenty of problems with the NIST story and Bazant's theory.

Your long winded posts sound like a desperate defense lawyer's brief. The problem with what they are usually saying, and with what you are saying, is that it is unprovable, because it is not what happened, and is only intended to maintain some level of doubt in people's minds.

One has to be brain dead not to realize that, due to it's total lack of deceleration and velocity loss, the upper section of WTC 1 could not have been the cause of the destruction of the lower section of the building.
 
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There are plenty of problems with the NIST story and Bazant's theory.

Your long winded posts sound like a desperate defense lawyer's brief. The problem with what they are usually saying and with what you are saying is that it is unprovable, because it is not what happened, and is only intended to maintain some level of doubt in people's minds.

One has to be brain dead not to realize that, due to it's total lack of deceleration and velocity loss, the upper section of WTC 1 could not have been the cause of the destruction of the lower section of the building.

What is the paranoid conspiracy theory of explosives and thermite? If you call people brain dead for not understanding physics, what do you call people who lie like 911 truth with the idiotic explosives and thermite delusions? You and David look at the WTC and see CD, that is worse than not knowing physics and engineering for the people you call brain dead. What do you call your deception based on your eyes that you see CD, you see it everywhere, but you ignore evidence, and have no evidence for you to support Davids paper. The weak attempts by 911 truth do not refute NIST and other experts. Never will be a real CD deal.

The core was still standing, I have no idea why you are upset, physics works, engineering works, and the core fell because it lacked lateral support which left, the shell and the floor holding the Core up!~

Has there ever been an office fire as big as the WTC towers started with 66,000 pounds of fuel, 10,000 gallons? Name an office fire as big as the WTC towers on 911, and one that had unprotected steel?

I love the Heiwa junk, dropping the top of the WTC from 2 miles will not damage the lower part; explain the JOLT that would be.
 
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There are plenty of problems with the NIST story and Bazant's theory.

Your long winded posts sound like a desperate defense lawyer's brief. The problem with what they are usually saying, and with what you are saying, is that it is unprovable, because it is not what happened, and is only intended to maintain some level of doubt in people's minds.

One has to be brain dead not to realize that, due to it's total lack of deceleration and velocity loss, the upper section of WTC 1 could not have been the cause of the destruction of the lower section of the building.

You know what? I for one am sick and tired of you trying to shove your extreme minority view down my throat like some cult member. From what I can see, when the folks here who know what they are talking about, and the engineer friends I have who also know what they are talking about, tell me you don't know what YOU are talking about, I believe them.

I don't believe you.
 
You know what? I for one am sick and tired of you trying to shove your extreme minority view down my throat like some cult member. From what I can see, when the folks here who know what they are talking about, and the engineer friends I have who also know what they are talking about, tell me you don't know what YOU are talking about, I believe them.

I don't believe you.

Why would you even post drivel like this in a debate?

This isn't about a cult of any sort. What I am saying has sound engineering and physics as its underpinnings and it shows there are very serious problems with the current official explanation for the collapse of WTC 1.

If you don't want to face reality don't read it.
 
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I fully appreciate that if you want to break it down you can say decelerating the falling object by 1g puts it at rest and in the state of a static load. The additional deceleration of 1g is then what causes the amplification to twice the static load. The total deceleration is 2g.
Wrong again, Tony.

We're talking about Newtonian mechanics in a gravity field at the earth's surface. To reduce the falling object's acceleration from 1g to 0g does not put it at rest, but does require force equal to the static load. To bring the falling object to rest will require additional deceleration. Decelerating the falling object by 1g, which requires twice the static load, will bring the falling object to rest for but an instant and will not stop there; the falling object will continue to accelerate upward. An additional deceleration of 1g, for a total of 2g, will accelerate the initially falling object upward at twice the acceleration of gravity.

You are obviously just playing with words here because you don't have an argument against the fact that there was no deceleration and velocity loss in the fall of the upper section of WTC 1.
No, Tony, you are scrambling to excuse your ignorance of Newtonian mechanics. Lurkers who are as ignorant of physics as you may fall for it, but real engineers, scientists, and mathematicians see you for what you are.

You are the one who doesn't understand physics. A static load is being decelerated by 1g to start with and you show that in your own words and then contradict yourself.
You have just confirmed my accusation that you continue to believe that an object at rest is being accelerated by gravity.

In other words, you still do not understand the Newtonian concept of accelerationWP.

That you do not understand Newtonian mechanics as well as I do is nothing to be ashamed of. On the other hand, the fact that you do not even understand the concept of accelerationWP is an utter disgrace.
 
I get the impression that the dynamic load issue is another way of passing on Chandler's brilliance, and Heiwa's ingenuity, that a smaller mass A cannot ever "one way crush" a mass B. Since collapse capability is treated directly by proportion rather than dynamics, and structural systems are treated as single entities any progressive collapse involving a "smaller" piece of building versus a "larger piece of building" should therefore be impossible.

One has to be brain dead not to realize that, due to it's total lack of deceleration and velocity loss, the upper section of WTC 1 could not have been the cause of the destruction of the lower section of the building.

Which raises one question for me; Humoring the idea do you think the upper sections of either tower were capable at all of propagating the collapse to the ground? Forget for a moment what you're claiming, if what you claim is missing were there, in your opinion would it have progressed? Or should I expect to hear something to the effect of what Heiwa's been gearing with, that the upper sections would have been completely dissipated before propagating the collapse significantly further? I'd be interested in what you think about that.
 
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I get the impression that the dynamic load issue is another way of passing on Chandler's brilliance, and Heiwa's ingenuity, that a smaller mass A cannot ever "one way crush" a mass B. Since collapse capability is treated directly by proportion rather than dynamics, and structural systems are treated as single entities any progressive collapse involving a "smaller" piece of building versus a "larger piece of building" should therefore be impossible.

I'm constantly amazed the utterly bizarre logic people bring out...



Which raises one question for me; Humoring the idea do you think the upper sections of either tower were capable at all of propagating the collapse to the ground? Forget for a moment what you're claiming, if what you claim is missing were there, in your opinion would it have progressed? Or should I expect to hear something to the effect of what Heiwa's been gearing with, that the upper sections would have been completely dissipated before propagating the collapse further?

I have stated here and other places before that if there had been a significant dynamic load the upper 12 stories of WTC 1 would have caused some level of continuation.

We do know that in impulsive collisions of building sections both the upper and lower sections are simultaneously destroyed so the dynamic loading would not be available long enough for it to continue the destruction to the ground. However, I do think that if there is enough rubble generated by the time the upper section is destroyed, that the static load could cause a collapse continuation of the floors.
 
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Hey Tony,

This reminds me:

What about WTC2?

Do you have any thoughts on that?

I would think you should realize that due to WTC 2's large tilt and convoluted initiation it is not as easily analyzed for the features I am discussing, so I prefer to look at WTC 1 for now.
 
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There are plenty of problems with the NIST story and Bazant's theory.

Your long winded posts sound like a desperate defense lawyer's brief. The problem with what they are usually saying, and with what you are saying, is that it is unprovable, because it is not what happened, and is only intended to maintain some level of doubt in people's minds.

One has to be brain dead not to realize that, due to it's total lack of deceleration and velocity loss, the upper section of WTC 1 could not have been the cause of the destruction of the lower section of the building.

And yet, reality continues as before.
 
I would think you should realize that due to WTC 2's large tilt and convoluted initiation it is not as easily analyzed for the features I am discussing, so I prefer to look at WTC 1 for now.

I'm not an engineer, but I think what he's saying here is:

"I haven't yet figured out how to shoehorn WTC 2 into my theory."
 
Wrong again, Tony.

...

That you do not understand Newtonian mechanics as well as I do is nothing to be ashamed of. On the other hand, the fact that you do not even understand the concept of accelerationWP is an utter disgrace.

I don't even mind so much that he doesn't understand simple concepts - it's that he's such an arrogant ass while misunderstanding those concepts that makes me laugh.
 
There are plenty of problems with the NIST story and Bazant's theory.

Your long winded posts sound like a desperate defense lawyer's brief. The problem with what they are usually saying, and with what you are saying, is that it is unprovable, because it is not what happened, and is only intended to maintain some level of doubt in people's minds.

One has to be brain dead not to realize that, due to it's total lack of deceleration and velocity loss, the upper section of WTC 1 could not have been the cause of the destruction of the lower section of the building.

Why don't you take each paragraph of mine, and point out what I said that is wrong, and what the correct statement you think would apply.

Simple. Straightforward.

C'mon, Tony. Show some courage. Or demonstrate your cowardice & dishonesty by continuing to avoid my very simple, very specific claims.

You keep going to your conclusion, but run from discussing the specifics. Why, Tony?

Tom
 
If you have a freebody diagram, that you believe shows things to be different from what I explained, you are either misinterpreting it or it is wrong to begin with.

The only way a mass can be amplified to apply more force than it applies in a static state is to experience a deceleration greater than gravity during an impact. It is experiencing one unit of gravity in the static state where the force it applies is F = mg. To apply twice that load it needs to decelerate at twice that rate. This would be F = m x (2g).

I think you are confused by the initial static state.

I'll tell you what I'll do, Tony - when I'm at work tomorrow I'll draw up a couple of free body diagrams (since you seem to be unable to do that yourself) and write up an explanation. I do the same thing for the junior engineers and interns at our company when they have questions about physics and engineering. It seems this is the only way to get you to see your error.
 

Hey Walkyrie,
Are you calling Richard Gage a liar. Please don't. The twin towers fell at 2/3rd's freefall speed. And that is as close to freefall speed as it is to 1/3rd freefall speed, which is why the ae911truth like to say its "nearly freefalll speed". Tony Szamboti clarifies it nicely below.

You are simply wrong as Richard Gage does support my theory. If you think I am trying to undermine anything you are out in left field.

Watch this video and listen to what he says between 4:50 and 5:00 minute marks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txUaDtIbLow

2/3rds or 70% of freefall acceleration is near freefall. Your argument here is nonsensical.
 

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