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Any proof of the existence of a self?

Wittyname

New Blood
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Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
15
I have lots of thoughts that refers to a self. Like arrows that points to a center, an "I".
Maybe there's only a multitude of thoughts that refers to a center, i.e. the "thoughts thinking me", not "I think".
Maybe there is no self?
Maybe that's "ego is an illusion"?

I want proof of the existence of a self.
 
Wittyname said:
I have lots of thoughts that refers to a self. Like arrows that points to a center, an "I".
Maybe there's only a multitude of thoughts that refers to a center, i.e. the "thoughts thinking me", not "I think".
Maybe there is no self?
Maybe that's "ego is an illusion"?

I want proof of the existence of a self.
Click to expand...

That depends on your definition of self. Without a specific clear definition of what you mean by self we cannot begin to answer the question.
 
Wittyname said:
I have lots of thoughts that refers to a self. Like arrows that points to a center, an "I".
Maybe there's only a multitude of thoughts that refers to a center, i.e. the "thoughts thinking me", not "I think".
Maybe there is no self?
Maybe that's "ego is an illusion"?

I want proof of the existence of a self.
Click to expand...

Who's typing your posts?
 
Self: an entity that experience separation from the surroundings and consists over time.

tsig, don't understand. English isn't my first language if you refer to my spelling/grammar.
 
You might want to check out the thread here, "the meaning of life". On the second page, about 1/3 of the way down with post #52, the conversation starts focussing pretty heavily on identifying the self and what exactly it might be or not be.
 
Wittyname said:
Self: an entity that experience separation from the surroundings and consists over time.
Click to expand...

If English isn't your first language, you're way ahead of me because I can only communicate in one language. That being said, I can't make sense of this definition you gave.
 
Wittyname said:
Self: an entity that experience separation from the surroundings and consists over time.

tsig, don't understand. English isn't my first language if you refer to my spelling/grammar.
Click to expand...
tsig was asking you a rhetorical type of question.

in other words, by answering his question: "who is typing your posts?" if you answer "well I am of course" --- then that is possible proof for you that yourself exists.

I think "p-zombie" might be a term you want to google to learn the meaning of :)
 
Ok, realizing that my question maybe should have been; "How real is the self" to avoid definition problem with the word "self". By self i mean the everyday self we all live with.
 
Wittyname said:
Ok, realizing that my question maybe should have been; "How real is the self" to avoid definition problem with the word "self". By self i mean the everyday self we all live with.
Click to expand...
It's not ... it's an illusion. Go dig up a body and show me their "self". And the mark someone made on history is an illusion to ... the words on the pages describing what they did are meaningless to anyone who can't read them.

But the illusions are obviously real, aren't they?

One of the tricks, I think, is realizing that the self changes with each moment. You can choose to be a different self whenever you want. You can create whatever illusion you wish :)
 
trentwray said:
It's not ... it's an illusion. Go dig up a body and show me their "self". And the mark someone made on history is an illusion to ... the words on the pages describing what they did are meaningless to anyone who can't read them.

But the illusions are obviously real, aren't they?

One of the tricks, I think, is realizing that the self changes with each moment. You can choose to be a different self whenever you want. You can create whatever illusion you wish :)
Click to expand...

Would that not beg the question as to which self it was that was choosing?

I liked it when Derek Parfit, least I think that's who it was, began to distinguish between the notions of "persisting" and a "transitory" self. Selfhood seems to me created in the moment and it appears to persist over time, but it's very unlikely this actually happens. Yet it seems a highly convincing illusion. Many of those who claim to uphold materialism still admit they would not travel in his famous "teletransporter," apparently through fear that there is something that is lost when one body is destroyed and an identical one put in its place.

Nick
 
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Wittyname said:
I have lots of thoughts that refers to a self. Like arrows that points to a center, an "I".
Maybe there's only a multitude of thoughts that refers to a center, i.e. the "thoughts thinking me", not "I think".
Maybe there is no self?
Maybe that's "ego is an illusion"?

I want proof of the existence of a self.
Click to expand...


You don't exist.

/thread
 
Nick227 said:
Would that not beg the question as to which self it was that was choosing?
Click to expand...
This is the question I have as well ... so far I'm viewing it sort of like the observer in a double-slit experiment (my favorite experiment of all time to which I am biased :) )

I liked it when Derek Parfit, least I think that's who it was, began to distinguish between the notions of "persisting" and a "transitory" self. Selfhood seems to me created in the moment and it appears to persist over time, but it's very unlikely this actually happens. Yet it seems a highly convincing illusion. Many of those who claim to uphold materialism still admit they would not travel in his famous "teletransporter," apparently through fear that there is something that is lost when one body is destroyed and an identical one put in its place.

Nick
Click to expand...
The teletransporter vs. materialism is interesting ... what it implies ... hmm ...
 
Wittyname said:
I have lots of thoughts that refers to a self. Like arrows that points to a center, an "I".
Maybe there's only a multitude of thoughts that refers to a center, i.e. the "thoughts thinking me", not "I think".
Maybe there is no self?
Maybe that's "ego is an illusion"?

I want proof of the existence of a self.
Click to expand...

Welcome Wittyname. I used to beleive in a self, then I encounted the buddha, there is no self. there is a body, which is the closest approximate of the self.
 
Wittyname said:
Ok, realizing that my question maybe should have been; "How real is the self" to avoid definition problem with the word "self". By self i mean the everyday self we all live with.
Click to expand...

That self, the common self is the body for sure, the persistence of memory in the individual and those around them.
 
Dancing David said:
Welcome Wittyname. I used to beleive in a self, then I encounted the buddha, there is no self. there is a body, which is the closest approximate of the self.
Click to expand...
Have you followed any of LighteningStrikes thoughts/posts in the "Meaning of Life" thread? ... if you're familiar with the posts, is it essentially in line with your thought as well? Just curious ...
 
Wittyname said:
I have lots of thoughts that refers to a self. Like arrows that points to a center, an "I".
Maybe there's only a multitude of thoughts that refers to a center, i.e. the "thoughts thinking me", not "I think".
Maybe there is no self?
Maybe that's "ego is an illusion"?

I want proof of the existence of a self.
Click to expand...


Well I read a lot of Jung so when I use the word self I refer to the center of the psyche, the most "real" aspect of it. It is not the same as the ego.

jung-psyche2.jpg
 
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