Saggy, if you think that my skepticism over one picture and whether or not it represents a "bone crusher" means that I have started down the road of questioning the holocaust than you are mistaken.
There is no evidence for WW II according to holohoax scholar !
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Saggy, if you think that my skepticism over one picture and whether or not it represents a "bone crusher" means that I have started down the road of questioning the holocaust than you are mistaken.
It means that you are capable of doubting something you have read or been told, based on your own analysis of the data presented. That seems like a big start to me. Indeed, given that, you're almost there !
So, I asked you to examine some more 'evidence'. Do you believe that the picture shown is of people on their way to a gas chamber? Simple question. I"ll add - there is no information besides the picture. The picture is the whole story, like the picture of the 'bone crusher'.
Now, the 'bone crusher' can be a cement mixer (or not, it doesn't really make any difference, bone crushers exist), and the women and children can be walking to somewhere other than a gas chamber, and the truth of the holocaust is not affected at all. Clearly this is the case and I wouldn't say otherwise.
However, there is more to come, and we can get to the heart of the matter quickly.
But first, you didn't answer the question - do you accept that the women and children in the picture are walking to a gas chamber and are evidence for the holocaust? Or are you skeptical of that claim too?
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TSR
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No, this is the crux of your problem
The pic is *not* the "whole story," and you don't seem to understand that one pic does not contradict history
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The fact that I am a contributing member of a web site that dedicates itself to discussing scepticism and critical thinking kinda indicates that I am capable of analysing presented data. Your photograph is not the quite the epiphany you would have it.
Yes, so what are you saying this photo evidences? The picture is proof of nothing one way or the other, what it depicts is somebody on a road in the presence of others. My observation does not change my firm belief that the holocaust occurred. If you think that this photo is compelling evidence for or against anything, then you need to adjust your critical thinking faculties.
Oh, I think we are already at the meat of the matter and I think you will produce spurious, vague photo's all day if need be. I tend to look at this (click the following text to be taken to the image)
As far as I am concerned that is checkmate in this game of photo chess and therefore game over.
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VonKleist
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So anyway, this Hoess confession business Saggy. On what do you base your idea that Hoess' wrote his confession because he believed he might be reprieved at the last minute? Why doesn't he mention any appeal to clemency in his confession? Do you have a reference for his appeal? What were the grounds he used? What were the precedents for last minute clemency that he may have drew upon? Do you have any evidence at all, or is this just your own pet theory?
MaGZ says Hoess was coerced into producing the confession. Is he mistaken or do you think he's lying?
dafydd
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Because he hates Jews.
Two for two. Good work.
What does it prove? Absolutely nothing.
But, here is a photo that does prove something ...
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...ook/DachauPhotos/OldPhotos/MajdanekStains.jpg
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Removed breach of Rule 5. Do not hotlink images in your posts.
This is a photo of the interior of the 'gas chamber' at Majdanek. This 'gas chamber' is shown to visitors every day.
Are you skeptical that this room was actually a 'homicidal gas chamber'? Note the unbarred window.
As for your photo, I'm skeptical that it shows evidence of the holocaust. How did the prisoners die?
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Don't be so condescending. Mind your manners.
I haven't the faintest idea where you think this is going. Get to your big reveal, please.
Yes...................................
I'll take your word for that and because you are a denier I think it is very honest of you to admit that the photo is indeed a photo of a "gas chamber"
No - lets bear in mind that I am not in the least bit sceptical about any of the claims made by those who state the holocaust happened. You have already confirmed in this post that the photo is showing a gas chamber or "homicidal" gas chamber.
Why? What does an unbarred window mean?
I think I can see why you are sceptical of the holocaust. You do realise that victims of the holocaust are not identified as such by their method of death don't you? The way these people died is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that you haven't explained why the relatives of Commandant Eichelsdoerfer have not fought to clear his name in the event that this photo does not portray exactly what it purports to.
He was made to stand in this photo amongst his victims by Colonel Seiller of the US Fourth Armored Division. Eichelsdoerfer was tried at Nuremberg.
Spend some time here if you like to look at photographs. I trust you won't mind reading some 1st hand testimony also.
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It means that anyone can see that this is not a 'homicidal gas chamber'.
Nonetheless, it has been presented to the public for 60 years as a 'homicidal gas chamber' and evidence of the holocaust. So, it means more, it means that the holocaust promoters are dishonest beyond belief.
(For the interested, the room is a fumigation room where a commercial insecticide, Zyklon, was used to delouse clothing to prevent the spread of typhus.)
Eichelsdoerfer did not kill the prisoners, disease did. Some died after the wars end. Google reveals that the photo of Eichelsdoerfer among the bodies was staged by the allies after the war for propaganda purposes. It is evidence of a typhus epidemic at the wars end, not Nazi efforts to kill Jews.
I don't have the records, but presumably some Japanese prisoners died while in camps in Ca, from accident or disease. Did the US government kill them? Did the US government attempt to exterminate the Japanese? Should we take a photo of the camp commander with the bodies and publicize it as evidence of unspeakable evil? Shoud the camp commander be charged with a crime? This argument that how the prisoners died is irrelevant is complete nonsense.
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negativ
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The thing I want to know is this:
How does Saggy's world change if he suddenly comes to accept the holocaust was real? What idea is he defending?
Tangentially: Does Saggy suspect that other accounts of genocide throughout history have been hoaxes? If so, which ones, and why?
How does Saggy's world change if he suddenly comes to accept the holocaust was real? What idea is he defending?
Tangentially: Does Saggy suspect that other accounts of genocide throughout history have been hoaxes? If so, which ones, and why?
TSR
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Hmmmn. Speaking of Dachau, we're still waiting for your pictures that show the showerheads actually connected to water pipes there, and your explanation why a "shower room" would have two big bins in the walls open to the outside.
Or, you can continue to run away from this claim while we big kids point and laugh.
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Why did you say it was then?
My friend, there is only one thing that is beyond belief in this thread.
I never said he did. He did allow them to die of sickness under appalling circumstances.
No, I revealed this to you. I even gave the name of the US officer involved. Unlike you I wasn't attempting some sort of stealth, fishbait attack. Strange how you have neglected to acknowledge this.
No it is not - read the transcript. You will learn the history which you will then ignore.
No it is not (again). It is completely germane and to the point of this thread. Are you seriously comparing conditions in US camps with those depicted and described in the link I posted? Can you even be bothered?
It occurs to me that to debate this with you gives a modicum of credence to you and your ridiculous beliefs.
I do not intend to give you any more of my time.
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This is comlpete rubbish. The Nazis did everything in their power to combat typhus. It is spread by lice and kills camp personnel as well. The 'gas chambers' of the holocaust are actually fumigation rooms where clothes were deloused. The sign is from Auschwitz, it reads 'One louse, your death', in German and Polish,
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/image_files/054-01.jpe
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Yes, I am comparing the conditions in the camps. Not at the wars end when Germany had been bombed to smithereens, there were no supplies, or medicine, and there was a raging typhus epidemic, but during the war. The Auschwitz camp had orchestras, a theater where plays were produced, a swimming pool, a library, and even a brothel, which prisoners had access too. Did the Ca. camps have comparable facilities? I don't know. But the image of the German camps as killing fields is pure phantasmagoria, there is not a shred of truth to it.
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Interesting that you use an image from Jean-Claude Pressac's book "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers".
You may want to read his chapter regarding Zyklon B. Best read the whole book.
BadBoy
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why would you need bars, they weren't imprisoning them, they were killing them. Bars not needed.
You know, i think even if you were marched through the camp straight after the liberation, shown all the physical evidence first hand, I think you would just say it was all setup just to fool everyone. Your argument is pathetic. Your opinions disgust me.
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My bold.
It is unlikely that Saggy would want to let historical fact get in the way of his odious theories.
What happened to your skepticism ?
The beauty of the gas chambers is that no one really believes it. And, you don't need to read a book. There are exactly two 'homicidal gas chambers' in existence and shown to the public, the one already show at Majdanek, and one at Auschwitz. Unfortunately for the hoax establishment, it also has a large unbarred plate glass window. No book could convince a rational person, much less a rational skeptical person, that these rooms were 'homicidal gas chambers'. It is preposterous.
The 'gas chamber' at Auschwitz, the photo is from the interior and shows the door ....
http://www.historiography-project.com/images/doorc.gif
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Removed breach of Rule 5. Do not hotlink images in your posts.
For more photos of this hoax gas chamber see ...
http://www.historiography-project.com/misc/doors.html
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