Some dweeb nobody knows whines about food in America

[AvalonXQ]

He also, I should point out, makes some very good recipes. We have a cookbook of his that follows a similar theme; it's a basic repertoire of simple recipes for the average family, using easily available ingredients, that produces healthy and enjoyable meals with no particular skill required from the cook. This includes things like a lamb stew with tomatoes and garlic that can be reheated as a pasta sauce.

(emphasis added)
Lamb isn't available at my local grocers'.

 

[Checkmite]

That's possibly the stupidest suggestion I've seen outside the 9/11 CT forum. And if you have areas so poor that they can't afford a program that costs less than a cent per person per day and would lead to greater savings in healthcare costs, then the USA should be applying for membership of the Third World. Mind you, abandoning science teaching should help in that direction.

I'm afraid the point flew clear over your head on that one.

Probably about a third to a half, if you count indirect taxation in all forms. If it were a hundredth, £2.50 a year would still be a negligible increase.

See this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. "If it were a hundredth, it would still be a negligible increase". Says you.

A third to a half in taxes? Really? HA! Taxation in the US averages around 10% - 13%. A pittance, really. And yet, if you listen to anybody talk here, you'd learn that people in general feel actually they're being taxed to death at those percentages. The common sentiment is that the government takes almost everything. People here HATE taxes, like you wouldn't believe. You can tell them that a tax increase would hasten the Second Coming and they wouldn't care. Logical? No. But that's how it is. And yes, your "$4 a year" tax increase would get bogged down in all kinds of debate about what tax bracket should pay it, whether it's fair to make a taxpayer with no kids foot the bill, whether it's "constitutional" to tax people in order to feed school children....oh, yes. Think I'm kidding?

I'm going to say it now for the fourth time. I don't know why you guys keep blipping right over it as if it's never been posted - none of you have even addressed it. But just in case you've missed it all those other times, here it is again: In the US, it is not unheard of for a local community to allow its school system and facilities fall into disrepair rather than vote for a negligible tax increase to bolster them. We're talking buildings with leaking ceilings and bad plumbing. Textbooks over fifteen years old, and computers just as old. When it comes to education, the taxpayers of this great country would by and large not contribute a cent if they could help it. It's not a priority for them. Tell them that the US is 20th (or whatever) amongst the world's nations in educating it's children, and they'll shrug and move on. If they won't pay an extra two dollars a year to fix a darn roof, what on earth makes you think they'll be all for this change when their kids aren't starving at school?

 

[tesscaline]

Taxation in the US averages around 10% - 13%.

Really? That doesn't jive with what I've read... I assume you can cite a source...?

 

[Ixion]

See this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. "If it were a hundredth, it would still be a negligible increase". Says you.

A third to a half in taxes? Really? HA! Taxation in the US averages around 10% - 13%. A pittance, really. And yet, if you listen to anybody talk here, you'd learn that people in general feel actually they're being taxed to death at those percentages. The common sentiment is that the government takes almost everything. People here HATE taxes, like you wouldn't believe. You can tell them that a tax increase would hasten the Second Coming and they wouldn't care. Logical? No. But that's how it is. And yes, your "$4 a year" tax increase would get bogged down in all kinds of debate about what tax bracket should pay it, whether it's fair to make a taxpayer with no kids foot the bill, whether it's "constitutional" to tax people in order to feed school children....oh, yes. Think I'm kidding?

I'm going to say it now for the fourth time. I don't know why you guys keep blipping right over it as if it's never been posted - none of you have even addressed it. But just in case you've missed it all those other times, here it is again: In the US, it is not unheard of for a local community to allow its school system and facilities fall into disrepair rather than vote for a negligible tax increase to bolster them. We're talking buildings with leaking ceilings and bad plumbing. Textbooks over fifteen years old, and computers just as old. When it comes to education, the taxpayers of this great country would by and large not contribute a cent if they could help it. It's not a priority for them. Tell them that the US is 20th (or whatever) amongst the world's nations in educating it's children, and they'll shrug and move on. If they won't pay an extra two dollars a year to fix a darn roof, what on earth makes you think they'll be all for this change when their kids aren't starving at school?

Really? That doesn't jive with what I've read... I assume you can cite a source...?

I agree with Checkmite's sentiment that people of the US are strongly against tax raises, I think SkeptiChick is correct that 10-13% seems a bit off. I thought personal taxes averaged around 25-30% for the US. Can you provide a source?

 

[Checkmite]

Not aside from my check stubs, which I'm not posting. Guess I'll have to say you got me there.

 

[GlennB]

Indeed. Checkmite's argument seems a rather odd one. He asks about the costs involved in the changes made. He is given evidence that the costs were negligible. Therefore this couldn't possibly work in the US. I really don't get it.

Things only work in the US when costs are high. Tipping and healthcare being two prime examples.

 

[rwguinn]

Really? That doesn't jive with what I've read... I assume you can cite a source...?

I agree with Checkmite's sentiment that people of the US are strongly against tax raises, I think SkeptiChick is correct that 10-13% seems a bit off. I thought personal taxes averaged around 25-30% for the US. Can you provide a source?

Not aside from my check stubs, which I'm not posting. Guess I'll have to say you got me there.

Federal Income Taxes are 17% of net. Sales Tax here is 8.3% on everything except food ingredients (raw food?)-including services-mechanics, apliance repairmen, etc. Prepared food is taxed.
Gasoline taxes are 40 cents per gallon (approx). Personal property taxes are miniscule (About 400/year on 2 cars and a pickup truck.) Property Taxes are about 2-3% of market value, so that is a variable, depending on what you own.
So, 25% looks about right...

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Jamie Oliver? Sounds familiar, but I can tell you he's no Rachael Ray or Mario Batali.

Just saw a commercial for this last night:
Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution

I saw it yesterday myself. I'm sure his heart's in the right place, but I'm not sure if people will understand what he's saying half the time.

I've seen episodes of Naked Chef so I am, unlike my fellow Americans apparently, quite familiar with him, but I'm not kidding about him not being understood sometimes.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I'm going to say it now for the fourth time. I don't know why you guys keep blipping right over it as if it's never been posted - none of you have even addressed it. But just in case you've missed it all those other times, here it is again: In the US, it is not unheard of for a local community to allow its school system and facilities fall into disrepair rather than vote for a negligible tax increase to bolster them. We're talking buildings with leaking ceilings and bad plumbing. Textbooks over fifteen years old, and computers just as old. When it comes to education, the taxpayers of this great country would by and large not contribute a cent if they could help it. It's not a priority for them. Tell them that the US is 20th (or whatever) amongst the world's nations in educating it's children, and they'll shrug and move on. If they won't pay an extra two dollars a year to fix a darn roof, what on earth makes you think they'll be all for this change when their kids aren't starving at school?

This is all equally commonplace in the UK, and these sort of objections were all levelled at Jamie Oliver when he started trying to improve school meals here. And yet, despite the considered opinions of many, he seems to have succeeded. When I hear the same objections raised from the USA, I see no reason why they shouldn't prove equally irrelevant. Why not let him try? If he fails, nobody but him has lost anything.

Dave

 

[Darat]

Jamie Oliver? Sounds familiar, but I can tell you he's no Rachael Ray or Mario Batali.



I saw it yesterday myself. I'm sure his heart's in the right place, but I'm not sure if people will understand what he's saying half the time.

I've seen episodes of Naked Chef so I am, unlike my fellow Americans apparently, quite familiar with him, but I'm not kidding about him not being understood sometimes.

That has nothing to do with his British accent - lots of us over here can't understand half of what he says!

 

[zooterkin]

(emphasis added)
Lamb isn't available at my local grocers'.

Nor mine. It's not available at my local shoe shop, either. I think you might have more luck at the butcher.



(And, despite the well-know phrase, grocer doesn't require an apostrophe )

 

[bluesjnr]

Nor mine. It's not available at my local shoe shop, either. I think you might have more luck at the butcher.



(And, despite the well-know phrase, grocer doesn't require an apostrophe )

Some of the lamb I've eaten should have been in the local shoe shop!

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

That has nothing to do with his British accent - lots of us over here can't understand half of what he says!

(emphasis added)
Lamb isn't available at my local grocers'.

I found some ground lamb at a Kroger (chain grocery) once and fixed it up with Hamburger Helper. It was very rich tasting, but I thought it turned out quite well.

 

[HawaiiBigSis]

Considering that, except for leafy vegetables and the carrot/radish families, the growing season un the US extends over Summer (and in some Northern States, doesn't even start till June--We always planted/transplanted in late May in Denver, and had to re-plant about 60% of the time when we got a freeze), who is going to take care of the garden over the Summer months?
Or are you now advocating year-round schooling?

Actually, I have always advocated year-round schooling; and my grandchildren have had year-round schooling for most of their lives. (Three months on, one month off, but the entire school doesn't take the same month off, so there's always somebody on campus.)

My nephew's school (in Leeds) has just been given a lottery grant to create basically a market garden on the school site. The idea is that the school will produce all their own vegetables and soft fruit with the pupils (4-11 years) doing most of the work. I understand that its a next stage on from Jamie's school dinners.

I grew up 10 miles out of San Francisco during the 70's after they passed prop 13. So urban school, no state/government funding, 35 kids to a class. We had a couple of planter boxes in a small part of the school, that were donated by a local nursery. It wasn't all that big, but we could grow some crops, and we did learn a load of useful lessons.

But it is happening in the US already. The Chez Panisse Foundation and The Edible Schoolyard started by US Chef Alice Waters are examples of projects that have been started and are flourishing in urban areas of the US.

Yay!

Are we now counting anything even coincidentally involving "fresh vegetables" as proof of Oliver's "success" in the US? Starting a community-style garden doesn't seem to me to be anything like what Oliver did in the UK; unless somebody's been withholding information on me. No schoolyard garden could feed a 1,500-student school lunch every day for an entire school year.

I wasn't advocating trying to feed 1500 students lunch daily, nor do I think any of the people above were; it was just a side thought. Plus, success in one place tends to make the student want to duplicate the success in a different place. So if kids eat, for instance, fresh home-grown tomatoes, they might be willing to plant and tend a tomato plant at home for the taste, or nag their parents to buy fresh tomatoes at the local farmers' market.

I don't think those examples were cited as being demonstrative of Jamie Oliver's impact, but of the general point of 'grow-your'own'

Yep.

Why not let him try? If he fails, nobody but him has lost anything.

Dave

Apparently, he is going to try. Good. I hope it works, and I hope it spreads. Of course, he'll do it in a very public way (which actually increases the chances of it both succeeding and spreading.)

 

[Travis]

Then your school district is a huge exception to the general rule in terms of providing lunches to students, and you shouldn't be using your experience as any measure of what is possible for the rest of the state, let alone the rest of the country.

The very same thing happened with the Modesto School District, Stockton School District and the Merced School District. They all tried to shut down their cafeterias that, to that point, only served kids on "assistance" programs.

So... you were trying to illustrate that a suggestion which was never made isn't viable? I don't see anyone saying that a "one size fits all" solution should be implemented. A change in ideology has been proposed, not a 12 step program to the perfect school lunch. Your objection to that ideology has come across as nothing but an ill-educated knee-jerk hissy fit because you don't like farmer's markets. If my interpretation is incorrect, and you actually have an objection based on something solid and quantifiable, perhaps you might wish to provide evidence of that solid and quantifiable thing instead of pouring out high school nostalgia stories.

Okay, put your money where your mouth is. Here's a school district. Now figure out someway for it use locally grown food. Note the location of the schools and the nearest possible location of any locally grown produce.

 

[Ixion]

Jamie Oliver? Sounds familiar, but I can tell you he's no Rachael Ray or Mario Batali.

I saw it yesterday myself. I'm sure his heart's in the right place, but I'm not sure if people will understand what he's saying half the time.

I've seen episodes of Naked Chef so I am, unlike my fellow Americans apparently, quite familiar with him, but I'm not kidding about him not being understood sometimes.

I guess I missed Naked Chef. Of course, I know Rachael Ray and Mario Batali and Giada de Laurentis and Bobby Flay and Guy Fieri and Paula Deen and such. It seems the Americans living abroad are more familiar with him than those living within the States. I want to try to catch the program and see how they present it. Sure, the producers will put it in the best light possible, but I want to see how they intend to implement it on the show. I think one of the main points Checkmite is trying to make (correct me if I am wrong) is that Americans are stubborn and don't like being told what to do. That being said, I think there is still a possibility that such a "Food Revolution" could work.

That has nothing to do with his British accent - lots of us over here can't understand half of what he says!

Damn. You mean all of those hours watching Dr. Who and Torchwood won't help a bit?

 

[tesscaline]

The very same thing happened with the Modesto School District, Stockton School District and the Merced School District. They all tried to shut down their cafeterias that, to that point, only served kids on "assistance" programs.

3 more exceptions out of an entire nation. This thread is about the US as a whole, you do realize that don't you?

Would you like me to counter your examples with an equal number of school districts that haven't done any such thing? I could, but since anecdotes are, well, anecdotes and not evidence, I think that'd be rather pointless.

Okay, put your money where your mouth is. Here's a school district. Now figure out someway for it use locally grown food. Note the location of the schools and the nearest possible location of any locally grown produce.

Seriously? I'm sorry, but you're simply not going to be able to make a case to me that anywhere in California is deficient in "local" produce. California is the #1 agricultural producer in the nation. It produces about half of all US grown fruit, nuts, and vegetables -- spread across 400 different commodities. And you want to know how on earth a california school district -- one that is less than 2 hours from the heart of the central valley where so much of this produce is grown -- could possibly get ahold of local produce?

 

[Ambrosia]

Jamie Oliver? Sounds familiar, but I can tell you he's no Rachael Ray or Mario Batali.

Rachael Ray ?????

Hell *I* could cook Ray under the table, she's more celebrity than chef, and hawks donuts while promoting healthy eating (???)

Batali is at least something close to an actual chef, having learned his craft under some top people, tho calling Gordon Ramsay "boring" and barring him from your restaurants reeks of publicity seeking.

Call me old school but I like my TV chefs to actually be capable of running a kitchen and to understand food.

Anthony Bourdain is worth ten thousand Rachael Rays.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Rachael Ray ?????

Hell *I* could cook Ray under the table, she's more celebrity than chef, and hawks donuts while promoting healthy eating (???)

Batali is at least something close to an actual chef, having learned his craft under some top people, tho calling Gordon Ramsay "boring" and barring him from your restaurants reeks of publicity seeking.

Call me old school but I like my TV chefs to actually be capable of running a kitchen and to understand food.

Anthony Bourdain is worth ten thousand Rachael Rays.

I guess I was a little too sublte. I mentioned Ray and Batali since they were on Food with Oliver. I could have mentioned Bourdain and Zimmern, but they're on Travel.

 

[Cavemonster]

Okay, put your money where your mouth is. Here's a school district. Now figure out someway for it use locally grown food. Note the location of the schools and the nearest possible location of any locally grown produce.

Maybe they could use some food from from the Shaw Family Farm in Truckee?
http://www.shawfamilyfarm.com/

Maybe they could get some produce from the suppliers of the Foothills Farmer's Market?
http://allabouttruckee.com/2009/07/29/august-events-in-truckee-ca/

Or they could look here
http://moonshineink.com/archives.php/50/786

Or to the many many farms in Solano about two hours away.
http://solanosgotit.blogspot.com/2006/07/solanos-grand-stands.html

And that was from a quick quick quick google search.

There are a ton of easily accessible locally grown food sources for that district.