Obama and Dems to go it alone on health-care reform, if GOP refuses to compromise

[Bill Thompson]

States have the option of opting out is part of the plan. You didn't solve the problem, the Democrats already did.

So, educate me, what does the Tea Party people have a beef with?

Why not make it easy? Why not say each state has to vote it into existance?

 

[Thunder]

So, educate me, what does the Tea Party people have a beef with?

well, the Tea Party wants to let people die in the street, i they don't have health insurance. that's part of the problem.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So, educate me, what does the Tea Party people have a beef with?

What don't they have a beef with? They don't want to pay taxes, any taxes at all. They don't like immigrants. They want to bring back "literacy tests" to keep people they don't like from voting. They don't like health care because they think it has death panels and other nonsense in it.

In other words, the Tea Party is comprised of a bunch of racist, ignorant fools.

Why not make it easy? Why not say each state has to vote it into existance?

Why? The federal program that's been proposed keeps the state's right to opt out.

 

[AvalonXQ]

BS. The Democrats are actually trying to improve the nation. You might believe that what they're proposing will hurt the nation, but their motivations are sound.

No they're not.
The Democrats would rather pass a terrible bill that they KNOW to be terrible than scrap it and ACTUALLY work with the Republicans on positive reform, because they need the victory politically.
The Democrats' bill used to be about increasing government control and reducing individual freedoms. Now it's primarily about not looking competely inept, while government control is only a secondary concern.

 

[Bill Thompson]

I am not so sure I am getting an unbaised view here.

If the states have the ability to opt out or opt in and if it is something easy to do, I do not see how anyone could be against this.

Is the Right against this just because they need to be against anything the Dems do? Man, I gotta get out of this country if it is so screwed up. If not for what it would do to my son, I would have left long ago.

 

[AvalonXQ]

In other words, the Tea Party is comprised of a bunch of racist, ignorant fools.

This, in a nutshell, is why the Democrats will lose -- villification of the enemy is the only way they know to play.

 

[thaiboxerken]

This, in a nutshell, is why the Democrats will lose -- villification of the enemy is the only way they know to play.

It's not vilification. It's just an accurate description of what these people are.

It's a fringe group of hateful people. They hate immigrants, they hate minorities, they hate taxes, they hate government, they hate, they hate, they hate.

 

[thaiboxerken]

This, in a nutshell, is why the Democrats will lose -- villification of the enemy is the only way they know to play.

Also, if you don't think the Republicans or the Tea Party people, themselves, do not vilify the "enemy" you've got blinders on. Take a look at CPAC coverage. Listen to what they're saying at Tea Party conventions.

 

[Thunder]

This, in a nutshell, is why the Democrats will lose -- villification of the enemy is the only way they know to play.

um....who were the ones calling the other guys "unPatriotic, Socialists, Communists, terrorist-lover, America-haters"????

 

[Rolfe]

But they do. Studies have shown that almost a third of all medical procedures in the US are medically unnecessary. Big Pharma spends million in advertising each year to get you to buy specific drugs, which would hardly seem necessary if people were only taking what they need, etc, etc.

Indeed. Once again the US naysayers declare that something undesirable which is already happening in the US system, is a terrible and inevitable consequence of a universal healthcare system, go there at your peril. But when we look at universal systems, actually that problem is not present in these systems.

Other examples include death panels, bureaucrats assigning patients to doctors with no choice, and bureaucrats standing between the patient and the doctor dictating what treatments are or are not permitted.

All of these occur in the US system at present. They are not, by and large, features of universal healthcare systems. And yet these are the dreadful consequences that are held up to Americans as scare tactics to stop them voting for universal healthcare.

Go figure.

Rolfe.

 

[Bill Thompson]

It's not vilification. It's just an accurate description of what these people are.

It's a fringe group of hateful people. They hate immigrants, they hate minorities, they hate taxes, they hate government, they hate, they hate, they hate.

The left has fringe groups who hate too.

 

[AvalonXQ]

It's not vilification. It's just an accurate description of what these people are.

No, it's not.
I've been to tea parties in my area; I've spoken to people there. What you give is not an accurate description of who they are.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The left has fringe groups who hate too.

Sure they do. They just don't seem to be pandered to by the Democrats.

I've been to tea parties in my area; I've spoken to people there. What you give is not an accurate description of who they are.

I disagree. The signs they hold up and the general message describes who they are. A bunch of angry racists who hate the government and immigrants.

 

[dudalb]

Wow, this discussion has turned into two groups of fantatics shouting at each other.

 

[dudalb]

No they're not.
The Democrats would rather pass a terrible bill that they KNOW to be terrible than scrap it and ACTUALLY work with the Republicans on positive reform, because they need the victory politically.
The Democrats' bill used to be about increasing government control and reducing individual freedoms. Now it's primarily about not looking competely inept, while government control is only a secondary concern.

The problem is the GOP is bought and paid for by the Insurance Industry,who are the ones responsible for the skyrocketing cost of medical care.
Not a big fan of the Democratic plan, but anhting the GOP comes up with will be a giveaway to the insurance companes.
And the Health care problem will not go away, If the GOP suceeds in killing any Health Care Reform, the problem will be back in a few years. The GOP cannot ignore for the sake of contributions from the Insurance Industry forever.

 

[Random]

No they're not.
The Democrats would rather pass a terrible bill that they KNOW to be terrible than scrap it and ACTUALLY work with the Republicans on positive reform, because they need the victory politically.
The Democrats' bill used to be about increasing government control and reducing individual freedoms. Now it's primarily about not looking competely inept, while government control is only a secondary concern.

I just don't know how Democrats and Republicans could actually work together on positive reform. The debate is not:

Democrats think healthcare should be ABC.
Republicans think healthcare should be XYZ.

The debate is:

Democrats think healthcare should be ABC.
Republicans think they should position themselves for optimum political strength in the 2010 and 2012 elections.

Regardless of how you feel about ABC, how can anybody think that Republican party cares in the slightest about healthcare reform after all we have seen from them?

 

[Thunder]

No they're not.
The Democrats would rather pass a terrible bill that they KNOW to be terrible than scrap it and ACTUALLY work with the Republicans on positive reform, because they need the victory politically.

proof?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Avalon is halfway correct. The Democrats are trying to pass a bill that isn't quite up to par of what they want to actually have accomplished. However, this is only because they tried to compromise a bill that might appeal to Republicans.

 

[firecoins]

Hmm remember a bit of a fuss in Massachusetts recently? It's 59 right now.

They had 60 for quite a while and didn't pass it well before it was 59.

 

[gnome]

They had 60 for quite a while and didn't pass it well before it was 59.

Not much of a criticism for such a comprehensive change requiring multiple passes through congress.